and, it's funny...

...because when i first started listening to swans around 1998-ish, that's what everybody said: they didn't get good until jarboe came in, don't listen to the stuff from the 80s, everything before burning world is just noisy shit, etc. their fan base was mostly goth/industrial types, and that was more or less the consensus position.

nowadays, the swans fan base seems to be mostly composed of like bro-ish dudes that think their high point was raping a slave.

it's a total reversal.