it's not that i disagree with you. i do agree with you. when you say that you ought to be able to wear what you want and feel comfortable and confident and safe, you're absolutely right - you ought to be able to. this is essentially a logical type of thinking.
where i run into difficulties with the line of thinking is trying to extrapolate it from the point of logical reasoning to the point of empirical enquiry. you ought to. but can you?
i'm not going to pretend like the science is here, but it is currently leaning towards male sexual responses being inherently impulsive. we're not quite dogs. but, we might not be as different from them as we'd like to think. generally, this argument applies in less mundane circumstances than standing in line at a tesco, but nonetheless...
now, the reason this is important is that the problem is often framed in cultural terms - which is a logical argument. we tend to think that if we just spend a lot of time explaining to these guys that they ought to smarten up and be more respectful then they will - that our logic will be triumphant. and we look at dude a and dude b and say "if dude a can be respectful, why can't dude b?".
the upcoming problem that may be necessary to very difficultly grapple with is that dude b might be acting out of a different genetic configuration that puts him in hormonal and cognitive states that cannot be effectively transcended without treatment.
i'm not exactly saying that that's true. i'm very much hoping it's not true. however, i'm pointing out that it very well might be true, and the sum of evidence is suggesting that it may actually be likely to be true.
which brings you back to the is/ought issue. you ought to. but...
[something about a shirt in tesco]
Saturday, September 6, 2014
this is the most interesting thing on the disc. bit of a garagey doors or floyd feel. genesis weren't the only prog band to come out of a more punk rock background (floyd, the nice, the who - or the beatles), but they held to it longer and better in a thematic sense. sort of a paradox - genesis were both the most musically complex and the most thematically punk rock of the classic prog acts. they were always less "classical/jazz rock" in the crimson or elp sense and more "elaborate garage rock" in the floyd-goes-to-art-school-and-hangs-out-with-bowie sense.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLCtaHldn34
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLCtaHldn34
(deleted post about influences on gabriel's vocals)
deathtokoalas
gabriel's had various vocal influences over the years, but my ears tell me that the most dominant influence was probably dave cousins from an early british prog group called strawbs.
i think the similarity you're hearing in their voices is primarily a result of age.
deathtokoalas
gabriel's had various vocal influences over the years, but my ears tell me that the most dominant influence was probably dave cousins from an early british prog group called strawbs.
i think the similarity you're hearing in their voices is primarily a result of age.
first time i've seen this.
it took me quite a few spins to get into ovo. i was expecting it to be more like his previous soundtrack work, which i held in higher regard than his pop records (post so) and was initially turned off by it's sort of mildly bourgeois presentation. but, i guess the project it was for is conceptually different than a film score and required something a little closer to a pop record. now, looking over his discography, it stands out fairly uniquely as somewhere in between his pop records and his film work and that arguably gets to both points better than either of those strains of his work ever did. that happens, sometimes, with artists that work in parallel in multiple genres.
the lamb is the best concept record that the rock era produced, and passion really remains the best film score of all time. but i think, in the end, that this is his real opus.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IhJCD0qJR4
it took me quite a few spins to get into ovo. i was expecting it to be more like his previous soundtrack work, which i held in higher regard than his pop records (post so) and was initially turned off by it's sort of mildly bourgeois presentation. but, i guess the project it was for is conceptually different than a film score and required something a little closer to a pop record. now, looking over his discography, it stands out fairly uniquely as somewhere in between his pop records and his film work and that arguably gets to both points better than either of those strains of his work ever did. that happens, sometimes, with artists that work in parallel in multiple genres.
the lamb is the best concept record that the rock era produced, and passion really remains the best film score of all time. but i think, in the end, that this is his real opus.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IhJCD0qJR4
no, you don't get it.
we gotta go to war against the rulers. they're already at war with us. they're not going to stop because you asked them really nice (or not so nicely) in a generic metal song. class war and nothing to lose but the chains and all that stuff....
stop being hippies and get those circled a's back on your chests, kids. you're going to need them. they're going to want to ship you to europe. it's coming. a generation hasn't had to deal with what you're going to have to deal with since the 70s. or, if you're particularly unlucky, the forties.
yes, i said that. and it's true.
stop seeking a truce in the class war and mobilize.
"but we said please."
what are you, canadian or something?
we gotta go to war against the rulers. they're already at war with us. they're not going to stop because you asked them really nice (or not so nicely) in a generic metal song. class war and nothing to lose but the chains and all that stuff....
stop being hippies and get those circled a's back on your chests, kids. you're going to need them. they're going to want to ship you to europe. it's coming. a generation hasn't had to deal with what you're going to have to deal with since the 70s. or, if you're particularly unlucky, the forties.
yes, i said that. and it's true.
stop seeking a truce in the class war and mobilize.
"but we said please."
what are you, canadian or something?
ugh.
this isn't a biased video. it's just straight up taking shots of the situation and interviewing people on the ground. if it's pro anything, it's pro-reality. and, it might do some people - and the world that is on the brink of a world war - some good if you partisan idiots can get your head around it.
there's no justification for this kind of force. it's slowly becoming clear that poroshenko ought to have a date in the hague. but, it won't happen because he's on the side that's protected from prosecution.
this isn't a biased video. it's just straight up taking shots of the situation and interviewing people on the ground. if it's pro anything, it's pro-reality. and, it might do some people - and the world that is on the brink of a world war - some good if you partisan idiots can get your head around it.
there's no justification for this kind of force. it's slowly becoming clear that poroshenko ought to have a date in the hague. but, it won't happen because he's on the side that's protected from prosecution.
i gotta say that the radiohead version is one of my favourite songs. i've been tuning my guitar to it for 15 years.
i've played it something like this once or twice, fucked up over something. it's a powerful chord progression, and even if you're not humming it those vocals running through your head can knock you on your ass for a pretty lengthy period of time.
if you get the song, you get the cover. it's bold. but it's quite naked and quite honest.
i've played it something like this once or twice, fucked up over something. it's a powerful chord progression, and even if you're not humming it those vocals running through your head can knock you on your ass for a pretty lengthy period of time.
if you get the song, you get the cover. it's bold. but it's quite naked and quite honest.
deathtokoalas
it's sort of remarkable how gabriel's erratic writing has created a large body of work that, today, both sounds dated and futuristic.
what i mean is that this is still ahead of it's time.
but the neo-liberals have very nearly won. it's time is near.
alikidry
peter gabriel writes thinker's lyrics, and they're always timeless in this thing we call human evolution. nothing like exploring the intricacies of the sub-psyche to remind us that we're just hairless apes. keeps us humble, as we should be. go, Peter!
oh ya, and what is the human psyche, if not erratic, agreed? :)
deathtokoalas
the human psyche is an imaginary construction. it doesn't actually exist. you can speak of it poetically, but then it's whatever you define it as.
agid095
It really does, just heard this song today for the first time in 10 years, and it could be mistaken for a new artist/song.
Syd Nyte
It's all a matter of perspective based on fragile human perception. If there is indeed a place where all these perceptions meet, we have thus far failed to reach it. I say place however time and space as "we" perceive it is also interpreted by these same frail perceptions.
George Theofanous
Well put.
Kunta Kinte
Couldn't have said it better myself. His music will always sound progressive I think
Philip Santori
Kind of like Yes!
deathtokoalas
no. yes sounds dated and pompous.
JazzLicka
maybe its the clinical depression
deathtokoalas
i'm not getting the context in your comment. gabriel has explored a wide range of emotions in his work, which spans roughly four decades. this particular track has a kind of ominous quality to it, but i wouldn't categorize it as "depressing".
he tends to cycle around more of a kind of an existential angst. i mean, don't get me wrong - there's a few tracks that'll knock you on your ass, and i love him for that. but it's not a "woe is me" kind of "depression". it's more of a somber, reflective take on the reality that sometimes life seems absurd and meaningless.
...and for every chamber of thirty two doors, there's a sledgehammer to counteract it.
so, you're not making sense, i don't think.
draconIs
Life is some what meaningless.
deathtokoalas
somewhat? nah. entirely.
JazzLicka
You used the word erratic , I was just pointing out that this could be caused by his long term depression , of which he himself talks of regarding his song writng. You are aware he was sectioned under the mental health act on 3 occasions
deathtokoalas
well, i guess the context is clear now - i wasn't sure what you meant. but i'm not sure i see the connection between creativity and depression. i know there's this sort of popular mystique about it. but, i think people that suffer from really powerful depression find it's more of a break in their creativity - and their productivity.
i think you might be on to something about the relative deficit of material released over the last twenty years, though...
to put it another way, i think it's more along the lines of that the depression is a consequence of the creative mind, rather than the other way around. it creates a sort of a struggle against the conforming nature of the world around us, and when the depression wins out it's often debilitating.
JazzLicka
You have a good understanding young Lady Gabriel sectioned himself in 2009. A lot of his early work including Solisbury Hill & later Mercy street express this struggle within.Often mistaken for spiritual mysticism.
it's sort of remarkable how gabriel's erratic writing has created a large body of work that, today, both sounds dated and futuristic.
what i mean is that this is still ahead of it's time.
but the neo-liberals have very nearly won. it's time is near.
alikidry
peter gabriel writes thinker's lyrics, and they're always timeless in this thing we call human evolution. nothing like exploring the intricacies of the sub-psyche to remind us that we're just hairless apes. keeps us humble, as we should be. go, Peter!
oh ya, and what is the human psyche, if not erratic, agreed? :)
deathtokoalas
the human psyche is an imaginary construction. it doesn't actually exist. you can speak of it poetically, but then it's whatever you define it as.
agid095
It really does, just heard this song today for the first time in 10 years, and it could be mistaken for a new artist/song.
Syd Nyte
It's all a matter of perspective based on fragile human perception. If there is indeed a place where all these perceptions meet, we have thus far failed to reach it. I say place however time and space as "we" perceive it is also interpreted by these same frail perceptions.
George Theofanous
Well put.
Kunta Kinte
Couldn't have said it better myself. His music will always sound progressive I think
Philip Santori
Kind of like Yes!
deathtokoalas
no. yes sounds dated and pompous.
JazzLicka
maybe its the clinical depression
deathtokoalas
i'm not getting the context in your comment. gabriel has explored a wide range of emotions in his work, which spans roughly four decades. this particular track has a kind of ominous quality to it, but i wouldn't categorize it as "depressing".
he tends to cycle around more of a kind of an existential angst. i mean, don't get me wrong - there's a few tracks that'll knock you on your ass, and i love him for that. but it's not a "woe is me" kind of "depression". it's more of a somber, reflective take on the reality that sometimes life seems absurd and meaningless.
...and for every chamber of thirty two doors, there's a sledgehammer to counteract it.
so, you're not making sense, i don't think.
Life is some what meaningless.
deathtokoalas
somewhat? nah. entirely.
JazzLicka
You used the word erratic , I was just pointing out that this could be caused by his long term depression , of which he himself talks of regarding his song writng. You are aware he was sectioned under the mental health act on 3 occasions
deathtokoalas
well, i guess the context is clear now - i wasn't sure what you meant. but i'm not sure i see the connection between creativity and depression. i know there's this sort of popular mystique about it. but, i think people that suffer from really powerful depression find it's more of a break in their creativity - and their productivity.
i think you might be on to something about the relative deficit of material released over the last twenty years, though...
to put it another way, i think it's more along the lines of that the depression is a consequence of the creative mind, rather than the other way around. it creates a sort of a struggle against the conforming nature of the world around us, and when the depression wins out it's often debilitating.
JazzLicka
You have a good understanding young Lady Gabriel sectioned himself in 2009. A lot of his early work including Solisbury Hill & later Mercy street express this struggle within.Often mistaken for spiritual mysticism.
some believe that when they die, they really live
i believe there never is an end
god gave up this world and people long ago
why she's never there, i still don't understand...
one of the heaviest moments in the band's discography - and proof you don't need need a distorted guitar to be heavy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFdqmnJj9cI
i believe there never is an end
god gave up this world and people long ago
why she's never there, i still don't understand...
one of the heaviest moments in the band's discography - and proof you don't need need a distorted guitar to be heavy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFdqmnJj9cI
trespass is really underrated. it's a transition record between their first one and nursery cryme, demonstrating aspects of both and focusing a little more on the feminine side of the band (more earth than sea, as the line goes) - which is where it shines, if you like it. i mean, you've gotta take it for what it is. there's no collins & no hackett but they were both always in a supporting role - important supporting roles, for sure, but not really directly involved in the core of the writing. the real writers in the classic line-up were banks (core song structures), gabriel (lyrics & themes) and rutherford (guitar & bass riffs). collins was a top notch drummer and hackett was a tasty lead player, but they were both providing extensions to the core writing. this is really the first point where that trio clicks - where gabriel is exploring interesting themes, and banks/rutherford are backing him up well - and every bit as classic a record as the others. when i was a kid (around ten), my uncle dubbed me a cassette with trespass on side a and nursery cryme on side b, and since then i've always considered them as a double record. they work well understood that way.
but i learned today that this track samples i am the walrus. i can't hear it. anybody have better ears than me and can point it out?
but i learned today that this track samples i am the walrus. i can't hear it. anybody have better ears than me and can point it out?
publishing me, myself and the time i thought this was a good idea (inri049)
i've been hard at work on a very vertically complex piece for over a month now and am taking a bit of a break this morning to jump ahead just a little. this is next in the list. it's the first track to come out of a project i shared with a singer through the end of 2001 and the first part of 2002.
none of the versions here are final, it's just a lot of demos, but i find all of them worthwhile in their own ways.
----
credits:
j - bass, guitars, synths, writing
sean - vocals, writing
jon - guitar performance (6)
https://jasonparent.bandcamp.com/album/me-myself-and-the-time-i-thought-this-was-a-good-idea
1) sean suggested the bass line ought to sound like this, from which the track was built. sept 1, 2001.
2) this is the first bass & vocal demo, recorded the day the track was written. sept 1, 2001.
3) i built this up on my own the friday night following the sunday it was written, in preparation for the next sunday jam session. sept 7, 2001.
4) as our guitarist was a no show two weeks in a row, we decided to do a joy division cover rather than write new material. i've left the track without drums to better fit the feel of the recording, as none of the renditions on this single contain drums by a very conscious choice to not include them. sept 9, 2001.
5) the song is thematically about somebody launching themselves off a bridge, so i thought it would be an interesting idea to produce a walk passage. this idea was never well received, as there were concerns that the synthesizer sounds too synthetic. but, i mean, it's a synthesizer, what the fuck do you expect it to sound like? sept 22, 2001.
6) the initial demo was a temporary mix to get some ideas across; it was realized from the start that the guitarist would want to do the guitars and the synths would need to be less rough. i didn't expect him to play the part i wrote, though, which was just a weird thing. in the end, this reconstruction did not end up being a final mix (i took most of the end out, which was only ever there on the insistence of the guitarist in the first place, and added an extra guitar part). oct 13, 2001.
none of the versions here are final, it's just a lot of demos, but i find all of them worthwhile in their own ways.
----
rabit is wolf arose accidentally from the cynicide project (jasonparent.bandcamp.com/album/to-spin-inside-dull-aberrations)
but produced far more material in the end. what happened was sean and i
showed up to a few jam sessions and the guitarist (jon - it was his
band) didn't, so we started writing some material without him...
initially, the intent was to include rather than exclude jon but he quickly developed a disinterest due to a variety of obvious if never fully articulated reasons. i was playing guitar parts on the demos, which he couldn't deal with. we were doing joy division songs, which were outside of his sphere of interest. we were writing without him, which made him feel unimportant. we were talking about songs without drums, which he wasn't interested in at all. etc. however, he did record a guitar part (that i wrote) that was never replaced.
this is a collection of demos from the first month of rabit is wolf, which includes multiple versions of the title track and a joy division cover. in the end, none of this would be released in the form it's in here (which is only available for download), but it creates a cohesive (if short) introduction to what follows that is self-contained in a historical context. stated differently, this is the first (post-punk) incarnation of rabit is wolf.
written and recorded in the fall of 2001. compiled on sept 6, 2014. as always, please use headphones.
initially, the intent was to include rather than exclude jon but he quickly developed a disinterest due to a variety of obvious if never fully articulated reasons. i was playing guitar parts on the demos, which he couldn't deal with. we were doing joy division songs, which were outside of his sphere of interest. we were writing without him, which made him feel unimportant. we were talking about songs without drums, which he wasn't interested in at all. etc. however, he did record a guitar part (that i wrote) that was never replaced.
this is a collection of demos from the first month of rabit is wolf, which includes multiple versions of the title track and a joy division cover. in the end, none of this would be released in the form it's in here (which is only available for download), but it creates a cohesive (if short) introduction to what follows that is self-contained in a historical context. stated differently, this is the first (post-punk) incarnation of rabit is wolf.
written and recorded in the fall of 2001. compiled on sept 6, 2014. as always, please use headphones.
credits:
j - bass, guitars, synths, writing
sean - vocals, writing
jon - guitar performance (6)
released october 15, 2001
https://jasonparent.bandcamp.com/album/me-myself-and-the-time-i-thought-this-was-a-good-idea
1) sean suggested the bass line ought to sound like this, from which the track was built. sept 1, 2001.
2) this is the first bass & vocal demo, recorded the day the track was written. sept 1, 2001.
3) i built this up on my own the friday night following the sunday it was written, in preparation for the next sunday jam session. sept 7, 2001.
4) as our guitarist was a no show two weeks in a row, we decided to do a joy division cover rather than write new material. i've left the track without drums to better fit the feel of the recording, as none of the renditions on this single contain drums by a very conscious choice to not include them. sept 9, 2001.
5) the song is thematically about somebody launching themselves off a bridge, so i thought it would be an interesting idea to produce a walk passage. this idea was never well received, as there were concerns that the synthesizer sounds too synthetic. but, i mean, it's a synthesizer, what the fuck do you expect it to sound like? sept 22, 2001.
6) the initial demo was a temporary mix to get some ideas across; it was realized from the start that the guitarist would want to do the guitars and the synths would need to be less rough. i didn't expect him to play the part i wrote, though, which was just a weird thing. in the end, this reconstruction did not end up being a final mix (i took most of the end out, which was only ever there on the insistence of the guitarist in the first place, and added an extra guitar part). oct 13, 2001.
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