deathtokoalas
ok, i've listened to this a few times.

i don't know or care about what "black metal" is. satan shmatan. GREAT GOOGLY MOOGLY.

comparing this to mbv, however, is highly degrading to mbv. the songwriting here is totally bland, and at no point do i ever want to float off to another planet. i don't want to turn the tables too strongly, but if you're ignorant enough to compare this to mbv then you should probably, honestly, just shut the fuck up. or maybe go listen to some mbv.

as mentioned in another comment, the best comparison is to isis: it's long, drawn out and ultimately kind of boring.

ProfessionalMemeMaker
sounds more like if slowdive and ulver had a baby

numba1netsfan
It's a legitimate comparison though.... its influenced by shoegaze.  Maybe you should learn the production techniques behind the different genres of music you claim to have so much knowledge about.  If you can't hear the thick wall of sound on this albumn, then you're ears are shit.  It's called blackGAZE for a reason.

deathtokoalas
is there a group of people following me around the internet or something? nor do i know why i'm getting this strange characterization as being a genre freak.

i'm not denying it's shoegaze. i don't care if it's shoegaze. what i'm saying is that, as ambient music, it SUCKS. it's some of the most watered down, unemotional, dry ambient music that i've ever heard.

i can't speak to it's quality as metal because i don't listen to metal, but i do listen to ambient music and, as ambient music, it is entirely unremarkable. mbv, on the other hand, is one of the most interesting acts in the genre.

it's like comparing every band with a riff to slayer. now, i don't think i've ever even heard an entire slayer record from start to finish. i've just never had a desire to shoot up a post office, or ever wanted to work that out through sound. but i think slayer fans would get fucking pissed after a while if every time somebody heard a distorted guitar they said "gee, that sounds like slayer". it would be really negating the artistry underlying slayer.

as mentioned, this sounds more like isis. the mbv comparisons (and if it's not obvious, i checked this out because it was being compared to mbv, not because it's some kind of spooky ghoul music) are just incredibly lazy journalism - if they're not delusions of grandeur. these guys don't have the talent, as songwriters, to be compared to a band like that...

what that means is that people that feel to need to be like "man, this is black metal for shoegaze fans" or "mbv fans should check this out" really ought to shut the fuck up. it's meant as an implicit, really head-scratching insult. nothing says "ignorant metal hick" like insulting something by comparing it to mbv.

but in this case it's a horrendous comparison. mbv fans that can handle drudging through all the pointless screaming are generally not  going to react well to the watered down and totally boring ambient sections that are pasted in between the "songs" on this record. fans of boring third wave post-rock might be more likely to dig it. but...again...

THIS SHOULD BE MARKETED DIRECTLY TO ISIS FANS.

numba1netsfan
Uhh you're posting stupid shit on the internet, of course people are going to reply.  We get that you don't like this, its being compared to MBV and post-rock because fans of those genres will most likely like this because it has shoegaze and post-rock elements.  I know many fans of Loveless that liked this albumn, and had never heard of black metal.  Post your own music, or shut the fuck up.

deathtokoalas
you're a liar.

there's some far more interesting music than this on my youtube channel.

numba1netsfan
rofl everybody listen to this guys music, its aimless bleeps and bloops that wouldnt even make sense on a 3rd plat robotrip.  dude just shut the fuck up and move on, we get that this album is causing you asspain,

deathtokoalas
this album couldn't afford to fuck me.

you listened for what, thirty seconds? i'm sorry that you lack the attention span and intelligence to enjoy something more developed than this watered down corporate garbage.

numba1netsfan
Judging by the titles of your tracks and your face, i dont think anybody would fuck you for free.  Also I listen to Psykovsky and Autechre on the reg, I like complex bleep bloop music but your shit just sounds like shit.  I'm sorry you dont have the attention span or intelligence to produce good music.

deathtokoalas
it's more like pink floyd than autechre. it's psychedelic or space rock. you're just demonstrating you haven't listened to it.

numba1netsfan
apparently you dont even know what you upload to your own channel, jesus does robotiussin

deathtokoalas
there's a definite coil influence on the track, but it doesn't contain any sequencing (blips or bloops) and it's hardly trying to be autechre. there's not even a drum part in the track. it's just some looped guitar parts and a simple piano part (played live, fwiw).

if you're going to bother listening to any more of it, you should realize that up front: it's almost all processed guitars. there are some electronic aspects, but it's not electronic music. it's psychedelic rock.

Ricky X
I love M B V  but I also love black metal, so deal with it.

deathtokoalas
surely, as ambient music, you don't wish to suggest that this is on the same level as mbv? surely, you'd realize that a homogenous, watered down third or fourth gen post-rock act like 'and i watch you from afar' is a better analog to the dry, repetitive, musically unadventurous "melodies" on display?

Ricky X
I mean I don't like this as much as Isn't Anything or Loveless, but this really is incomparable, I can understand how a MBV fan wouldn't like this since this is intense, screeching vocals and MBV is a dreamy pop band, I don't view this as "watered down" though, seems to be on the breaking point of  something new to me. Also, you can imply that they are a watered down post-rock band but by saying this you are also saying that M B V is a watered down version of Jesus and Mary Chain, bauhaus, Joy Division and The Velvet Underground 

deathtokoalas
i'm still not sure you're getting the point. whereas mbv wrote starkly original and deeply melodic songs, the ambient sections on this record are amelodic, rambling and highly derivative of a post-rock formula that's been recreated hundreds of times. the sense that this is comparable to mbv is similar to the sense that the beatles are comparable to hall & oates. hall & oates wrote pop music - just like the beatles. but, one was highly original and groundbreaking and compelling and the other was at the end of a decade of prog being dumbed down for the masses until there was nothing left to jettison.

that has nothing to do with the volume of the record. it has to do with the crappiness of the ambient portions of the disc. you'd find better ambient music in the box of demoes kranky records never bothered sorting through. it's subpar.

now, i'm not sure i'd concede that mbv was even influenced by any of those bands, especially not joy division. but, stating that this is watered down post-rock (and consequently not genetically connected to mbv) in no way suggests anything to do with mbv's influences. the better and more standard argument, fwiw, would be that mbv began with a sound that was pioneered by the cocteau twins, u2 and the cure and slowly made it their own. but this isn't relevant to the very bad and horribly lazy comparison that the music press is making on this disc.

Ricky X
enough with the classifications, lets just enjoy the music we like lol.  

COSMIC666
degrading to mbv hahah your funny bro  mbv are my favourite band ever and i also think that this is an amazing album and it did make me think of loveless the first time i heard it and you think its degrading to mbv that i thought that? that is hilarious. FUCK GENRES  LISTEN TO THE MUSIC WITHOUT THINKING ABOUT BOXES

deathtokoalas
well, i can't speak to your thought processes. i don't know you, or why x triggers y in your brain. that's a complicated, non-linear thing that could very well reduce to that time you caught your mom making out with your sister or something.

but, the comparison simply isn't grounded, for the myriad of reasons i've stated.

(deleted post)

deathtokoalas
as an aside, if you'd be interested in starting a queer-positive activist group to crash black metal and metalcore shows and just hang out and look queer, let me know. i'm not blaming the bands. i'm reminded of kurt cobain's plea. but the high volume of homophobic comments on the internet as they are connected to metal culture indicates that there's a problem that requires some activism.

an "is it metal?" argument. hrmmn. i can't claim i'm much of an expert on the topic, but i can point out that 80% of the rock music i listen to has a genealogical relationship over on the punk side, and one of the reasons i like krallice better than most other things labeled 'metal' is that i find the guitars are very much in the hardcore/punk sphere. i can relate to this in ways that i often can't relate to "metal".

that being said, the vocals are kind of annoying. i'd like this infinitely better if it were entirely instrumental. in fact, i'd probably like it almost as much as i like indricothere. and i really like indricothere (the other 20% of rock i like is almost entirely jazz or psych on some level).

so, i'm not sure if that's of any use or not. despite this here punk liking it better than most metal, if it is still "metal", it definitely has a crossover.

most people coming to this page won't be old enough to remember this, but i sort of feel the need to post it as a lark.....

there's a similarity in the vocal melody. i think it puts this band and the whole wave thing into a bit more context.

and, obviously, there's some other well known band that's worth checking out before bush. fwiw, that happens to probably be bush' most intense track.

Kardinal ZG
Senile Chomsky being a sanctimonious prick again....

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/02/02/noam-chomsky-super-bowl-reduces-joe-six-packs-capacity-to-think/

Gordon Lutze-Wallace
I actually agree with this.

John Thomas Casey
Guy is pretty annoying though I have no interest in watching....

Kardinal ZG
Yea well i do find sport event barbarous, but his main argument throughout his career was that people are stupid and america is imperialistic. Good job. Someone get him a chocolate medal.

jessica amber murray
chomsky has noticeably lost a step in the last two years or so. the first really clueless analysis i heard from him was around the beginning of the arab spring, when he seemed entirely unaware of the power politics circling around it. he hasn't really kept up since.

two things, though.

first, it wouldn't be obvious that america is an imperialist state if people like chomsky weren't pointing it out. coming out of world war two, that wasn't the dominant narrative. you sitting there and going "well, duh" is actually a consequence of his dissent (and the dissent of many others).

second, i think what he's actually expressing is a kind of muted optimism. i mean, he's a syndicalist. that's the exact opposite of the idea that people can't run their own lives. so, why don't people fight more for co-ops and collectives? worse, i think it's a huge error to reduce everything he's said to manufacturing consent (which he was the second author of), but, regardless, the book was really just applying gramsci's ideas of hegemony, which are pretty well accepted. it's a valid analysis. it's less about how people don't revolt because they are stupid (isn't that more what the french, say foucault, said?) and more that access to information is controlled in such a way to produce and enforce a narrative. the internet has maybe dulled it's effect, a little. i think we're due for a different analysis that draws on like huxley or something. but realizing that that's true (and still applies at least to television) is the first step in countering it. countering official narratives by citing facts is a much better way to characterize his writings in a statement. in a sense, anybody could do that. it's just a question of doing the research. but he's somebody that actually has, and has been read.

that makes him more of a historian than anything else.

the optimism is that if people weren't so controlled then they'd revolt, and that's in opposition to people who claim the proletariat is incapable of doing anything themselves.

personally, i think people are more distracted by labour and bills than media. what he's saying applies more to white collar workers than blue collar ones. it's a distraction, but more a distraction of the upper middle class. i don't know how much a super bowl ticket costs, but i doubt it's affordable to the average worker.

Kardinal ZG
Labour and bills for sure. But really, his work is super sloppy, he has no apparent methodology apart from mere finger pointing. His borderline conspiratorial position is really problematic too. What exactly is the 'they' that orchestrates all of this to keep us dumb with football? He confounds effect with efficient causality. Thats like a rookie mistake.

jessica amber murray
the director of the cia at one point (william casey) had a controlling interest in abc. there's massive overlap between government and media. but the "they" more abstractly is the capitalist class, and it's proxies in government. more specifically? i don't think it's meant to be thought of that way, although i'm sure chomsky could provide a handful of examples (which doesn't prove the existence of such a thing, but shows how it works). he's cited the cfr in the ford administration. there was the project for the new american century group in the 90s that's had a dominant influence on neo-conservatism. these kinds of bodies do exist. do they represent something bigger? i think it's just a model. i do agree, though, that personifying class is a pitfall, but it's a general problem on the left that goes way behond chosmky. half of marx' writing reads off like a conspiracy theory, referencing some abstract thing that only really existed in his head.

Giovanni Cristoforo Iacovella
and yet... there is to a certain extent a partial truth to his 'panem et circenses' observation...

without having to fall into delirious conspiracy theories...

jessica amber murray
i've actually argued this point fairly strenuously: if you start with whatever conspiracy theory and you strip out the supernatural or silly aspects (aliens, satan, lizard people, masons, illuminati, muslims - even communists during the red scare), you're always left with what is really little more than a marxist class analysis. take out lizard people, insert capital. instant marxism. two conclusions: first, is that if conspiracy theorists weren't so maddeningly frustrating to debate with, there would probably actually be a high probability of converting them into leftists. second, it kind of gets you wondering. it seems like they're all variations on the same theme, to create a ridiculous villain to hate on in place of capital. in the case of the illuminati conspiracy theory, and to the lesser extent the red scare, history actually corresponds fairly well with that idea of divide and conquer - which suggests that the real conspiracy is a conspiracy of capital.

but, yeah. leftists need to constantly be aware of this when they're talking about capital, or talking about class. it's an easy trap to fall into. i don't think that chomsky is particularly guilty of it, though.

Kardinal ZG
Not sure how many marxists adhere to this personified 'they' or that it reads like conspiracy work. For marx at least ideology happens idependently from any one specific human agency. The deeper problem might be that nobody is actually driving. As for the super bowl it seems more like a stupid cathartic social ritual (look we all have these) than an actual plot to make me stupid.

jessica amber murray
i've read a lot of marx that speaks of "the bourgeoisie" in terms of it being a monolithic thing, and gives off the impression that it's run by some kind of centralized body. in his case, that usually just meant a parliament, and he was usually just glossing over disagreements for the sake of brevity. sometimes, though, it kind of takes on it's own agency in a way that's kind of hard to swallow. i mean, i'm willing to interpret it as a model. it doesn't bother me much. but it's there.