deathtokoalas
but....it was also right around the time where proto-punk was all over detroit...
grargh.
it's just really surreal to see a barrage of hipsters that are somehow surprised that glam and punk existed in detroit in the early 70s. whatever. back to your "music began in 1976" regularly scheduled programs.
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deathtokoalas
rock itself is mostly a splice of folk
& blues. how you choose to augment the sound beyond that (with
classical orchestrations or horn arrangements or electronic textures or
...) defines the subgenre. but, when you strip aside the embellishment,
what you get is the combination of blues and folk.
yeah. i admit i'm a fan of autolux in a "what radiohead should have done" sort of way - and i'd suspect that most of the negative comments are from people that are not.
it's still lacking, compared to the brilliant remixes that came out of the 90s, but it's a little closer to what a nine inch nails remix used to sound like back in the day and that's a tad refreshing.
deathtokoalas
only the levee breaks would stand up in court. except it wasn't plagiarism 'cause it was a cover.
page is definitely guilty of ripping off mclaughlin and clapton and beck. and plant was definitely trying very hard to do the aretha thing. there's no need to make things up.
gonzocurt
Yeah, and Clapton, The Stones and Beck "ripped off" B.B.King, Freddie King, Chuck Berry, Elmore James, Robert Johnson, etc. Or was it they just loved that stuff so much they had to play it? And it influenced their musical language just like you pick up accents etc. In most cases, they worked their own creative process on it and honed it into something the young whites of the time loved.
deathtokoalas
well, it's sort of exaggerated, really. my point was that page wasn't really a guy that copied black artists, he was a guy that copied white artists that were heavily influenced by black artists. the synthesis had already been established by the time page came along...he built his sound on top of a fusion that had already happened....
but, to the extent that those other players were copying? there's a far stronger "cultural appropriation" accusation leveled at the rnb sound of the stones, the early beatles, etc than there is at the heavy blues of cream, yardbirds, zeppelin or sabbath. they operated in the same (lack of) theoretical space, sure. but cream didn't steal any more from robert johnson than jimi hendrix did. they were both working with extrapolations of a pre-existing sound, but they were also both entirely unique. delta blues simply doesn't have a psychedelic quality or a baroque quality, or any influence from eastern music.
MICHAEL HAMILTON BERRY
mclaughlin ? Page was on recordings long Before he was even heard of....what do you have to offer about music history ?
taking some one Else's song and presenting it as your own is dishonest and is actually theft of intellectual copy write. It is Illegal and morally wrong .
I like Led Zep but I think this is a rotten thing they have done over and over again.
The other poor bastards are probably broke and dead with nothing to show for a life in music. nothing to pass on to us and their descendants.
THATS why if is a ROTTEN thing to do !
deathtokoalas
i hate led zeppelin, but it's not because of the plagiarism (that doesn't truly exist), it's because robert plant is just not enjoyable to listen to. it's really a shame that page decided to work with such an annoying vocalist.
mclaughlin was even page's biggest influence, at least in the sense of who we understand jimmy page as today. mclaughlin actually gave jimmy page guitar lessons in the mid-60s. he's the architect of the sound.
page started off doing session work for country musicians, while mclaughlin was playing for graham bond. graham bond's rhythm section was made up of ginger baker and jack bruce, who would later form cream with eric clapton. this is where the fusion sound developed; mclaughlin did some early jazz recordings with bruce & baker....
when baker & bruce formed cream, clapton was very much their replacement for mclaughlin.
davis wanted hendrix to work with him, initially. hendrix couldn't commit. so, he picked mclaughlin. not page. not clapton...
page first intersected with mclaughlin when they were doing (uncredited) session work for the rolling stones. mclaughlin was the primary session guy, page was the second. there are apparently mid 60s stones tracks where mclaughlin is playing lead and page is playing rhythm.
i'm not adding anything to music history, i'm merely teaching it to somebody who doesn't know it.
