deathtokoalas
well, this starts off a bit more interesting, although it falls into every-other-ambient-song-ever-made a little under halfway through.
see, i wouldn't argue lopatin is without potential. but i find he (and a lot of his contemporaries, as well) release such an incredible bulk of material that it's easy to see why so much of it is so lacklustre. maybe if they spent more time on their work it wouldn't all sound the same?
but, overall, this kind of reminds me of the time that keith emerson decided it was a good idea to redo a bunch of mussorgsky on primitive synths. it really wasn't a very good idea. that was probably prog rock's most openly pompous and pretentious (and least self-conscious) moment. this will have a similar fate in the annals of music history...
the only half decent attempt at reinterpreting classical music for synthesizers that i've heard is william orbit's "pieces in a modern style".
k l
blender rock
deathtokoalas
well, the existing genres are all tainted, and i needed a catch phrase....
it's psych, basically.
wholewurld
Listen to Isao Tomita's Pictures At An Exhibition
deathtokoalas
i really wish people would just listen to mussorgsky's pictures at an exhibition, and tell everybody that's trying to commodify it to fuck off.
VexeonX
... Fuck.
deathtokoalas
the curious who wish to explore this further should be aware that this sounds very similar to early 80s skinny puppy, as heard on records like remission and bites. similarities to newer types of music may exist on various levels, but the similarity to early puppy on this track is total to the point of it being uncanny.
NempholyErrormoa
nitzer ebb is also a good place to look
deathtokoalas
not for prurient. nitzer ebb was a kind of dark synth pop, somewhere halfway between depeche mode and inxs.
NempholyErrormoa
technically it was EBM and technically this is EBM too. SP was more intentionally industrial.
deathtokoalas
see, i don't agree with any of that. nitzer ebb wasn't really "industrial music" in any meaningful sense, it just got kind of caught up in it. whether you want to talk about depeche mode or gary numan or even nine inch nails or whatever else, it's more in that category.
puppy did come out of that, but they never existed within it. it was a total rejection of the pop aesthetic; very much anti-music. even the earliest material made very explicit attempts to reject any concept of pop.
i don't hear the slightest bit of nitzer ebb in prurient, not even on this record - which is a lot more conventional than his other material. conversely,the puppy influence is just overwhelming, and clearly quite purposeful. but, i'd lean more towards something like coil or maybe even black flag for further influences, which reach into darker territory rather than pop territory.
ebm is a term that developed in the 90s as a counterweight to idm and is only revisionistly applied to puppy from the 80s.
this is far more interesting - reminiscent, while still being forward-looking; it wears it's influences on it's sleeves without being derivative. when i first heard this a few years ago, i was hoping it would kickstart a dead movement that never fully realized it's potential. i think a lot of people were thinking that. and something's been kickstarted, although i don't know how coincidental it is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5geog-nrXig
deathtokoalas
this is closest to early skinny puppy, with bits of coil in the marching beats. remission. bites. scatology. horse rotorvator. it's not terrible, a bit predictable, but what's the point?
MagnitudePerson
The point is that i'm looking for more band that sounds like Skinny Puppy, thats the point! :D
deathtokoalas
but, nobody has or is going to have the talent or vision or articulate social commentary. it's always going to be a stale emulation. why listen to something that sounds like puppy, except lacks the subtlety and has dumb lyrics? just listen to puppy...
this has some potential, but let's put it into a little perspective: these kids aren't restricted by primitive technology, they can do whatever they want with a $50 laptop. one of the themes of the history of industrial music was rising complexity. you'll note that nobody sounded like 1982 in 1992, and it's because the technology expanded to give them greater opportunities to fulfil a larger vision.
so, what's the use of going back to the beginning of the reagan era and recreating the set of limitations that the musicians at the time were so happy to move beyond? there's only one answer, and it's profit.
that being said, i'd love to hear some kids decide they're going to pick up where everybody left off around the time that dwayne goettel died, with the focus on looking forwards rather than backwards. i'd eat that shit up until i vomit it back up....
deathtokoalas
hey, look. the kids have figured out how to water down fla (as if it wasn't already watered down) into a generic product that they can mass produce with little effort and sell at walmart.
yawn.
this was the least interesting major industrial act, but i think it's what you're looking for. the more substantial acts tend to be a bit more varied and less formulaic in their writing. FLA plasticity Zero Mix
Splooshii Thundersocks
I hate to be an asshole but I have to agree. This sounds like fla core from about ten years ago.
(deleted post)
deathtokoalas
bands this bad don't deserve breaks - unless you mean a break up.
ExquisiteDoom
I hate to be the annoying fuck who says +1. But, +1.
Aaaaaand i don't like a single song. Not even one. They completely miss me and i fucking kill for old school industrial, which this is just a complete ripoff of as if they have no clue why the old bands used the sounds they used.
deathtokoalas
i think there's this sort of mystique that's grown up around it, as though this is the "devil's music" or something. it's really missing the point behind a lot of it. the best industrial from the period was legitimately musically innovative, but it was also highly politicized. the imagery wasn't empty shock rock to irritate your parents. some of it was legitimately reaching towards other value systems, but the bulk of it was a kind of agitprop that developed parallel to the tactics used in punk rock. one of the defining factors of the new generation of "industrial" bands is that they've dropped that rooting in punk rock for a lack of substantial messaging. it's all style, no substance.
the other thing is that you'll note that all the artists of the period expanded their sound as they moved to more advanced technology. they reached the limits of what they could do with 80s machines and moved on to react to those limitations. going back to the old technology entirely misses the point. this is supposed to be pushing boundaries and exploring the unknown, not regurgitating the same thing over and over again to appeal to a market.
what i'd love to hear is somebody pick up where skinny puppy left off about 1995. nobody's really done that. the genre just evaporated, leaving nothing in it's wake but some scene kids in costumes competing over who's a better corporate slave. and, as one generation has shifted into the next, it's become all that's really left of what was.
but, there's definitely a younger audience for this. unfortunately, the vast majority of that audience doesn't seem to understand the music at all, it just sees it as a a retro fashion trend to exploit.
Lee Scuderi
I agree with you on the Skinny Puppy comments but your previous comments make me realize why nobody has attempted to do that. Anytime someone even comes remotely close to sounding like Puppy people go ape shit and start trashing them as "rip-offs". A band could have the same energy, vision and vibe as Puppy but would never get passed the barrage of loyalists who would keep them from progressing or gaining any sort of publicity. I hate to say it but Puppy broke the mold so if you want a revitalization people have to stop holding acts down who make an attempt to capture that kind of energy. Ive seen it happen countless times. I mean there have to be musicians who have the same level of creativity but Im sure they are afraid to even make an attempt because they know what would happen. This genre has a very specific stigma and formula. I mean as far sound and vision goes and Puppy captured all of it. The only way to even get remotely close to being successful would be to take their formula....sound, image, vision and do it all over again because anything else just seems cheap and watered down.
deathtokoalas
if it sounded like puppy, it would be moving backwards rather than forwards. the idea is to carry on beyond puppy. if such a hypothetical project were to actually exist, the comparisons wouldn't stick because they wouldn't be accurate. and, if it actually were to sound like puppy then they'd be accurate...
so, i think you may have misunderstood what i said.
Lee Scuderi
Ok well what I'm saying is that its impossible to carry on beyond Puppy because they have pretty much broken the mold for this genre. Nothing in music is original anymore because everything has been done and if you get too far away from what makes a genre of music...as far as the nuances, sounds, vision, image then it starts to become something else. Basically my point is Puppy is the best thing that has and will happen to this type of music. You cant progress past it...you can only take the formula they have crafted and re-use it. Otherwise, in my opinion, whatever you produce will not be as good...just by default. Any other attempt to create music in the industrial genre will just end up being less appealing IMO. Say you use different instrumentation, sounds, etc. It will probably not be industrial anymore...and if you do use that formula...dark synths, atmosphere, visuals, distorted vocals people will cry foul and call you a rip off. Its really damned if you do, damned if you dont. I just dont think anything AS GOOD can exist in this genre unless you actually rip off the best...which would be Puppy. The comparisons will always be there.
I just think Puppy found that perfect balance of sound, image, vision and approach and anything else that is a variation to that will just be inferior. I hate to say that there is no hope for this genre but it's true. When a band creates music that is leagues beyond what anyone else has produced and also leaves no stone un-turned....that makes it near impossible for bands to compete or a genre to thrive. You cant use dark synth lines, horror movie samples, distorted vocals...any of that aesthetic will automatically be compared to Skinny Puppy. I hate to say Puppy killed a genre for being too good...but they kind of did.
deathtokoalas
see, here's the thing: it's hard to imagine how something that doesn't exist might exist. if it were that easy, it wouldn't be a hypothetical discussion.
you wouldn't be that far from it if you just added some vocals to some post-repetae autechre. i was exaggerating a little. but the basic idea is valid.
i think there's been a general collapse of abstraction in music since the mid 90s and it's root is in the cultural changes that ogre and like-minded people were warning us of. the cultural stagnation wasn't just predictable, it was predicted.
it exists in a weird electro-pop space, but check out pepepiano. i think it's next gen puppy, but it's also very different. see, it has to be to be next gen puppy...
as for reznor, he's been understood as a "borrower" for a long time but none of the specific accusations stick because none of them are true for more than a year or two. had he released five records that sounded like down in it, it would be fair to accuse him of ripping off puppy. instead, he ripped off ministry for a while and then went to ripping off idm and even spent a while ripping off radiohead. don't get me wrong with reznor: a few of the 90s remix discs are outstanding works of abstract art, but you have to give thirlwell and coil and dangers and the rest of them credit for the remixes that were done on those discs...
but, because you brought it up, i have to point to the tetsuo theme as another example of something that would be next gen. it's a short piece, but it's outstanding. i want hours and hours of it. nobody's doing it.
the little bit of truly original work that reznor has done (the quake soundtrack, the instrumentals on still, his recent film work and the remix discs in the 90s, to the extent he was involved) is for the most part outstanding and idiosyncratic.
but, he's based the bulk of his career on borrowed ideas and it's something that got worse and worse as he aged; he didn't find his own voice so much as he become more emboldened to use the voices of others. that's not a kneejerk reaction of any sort, it's merely a statement of fact.
Sinny
Some decent newer acts around. Mostly just fall into the noise category.
deathtokoalas
i've mostly been listening to punk lately. stuff comes up and down - more often than not in opposition to the prevailing trends. but, industrial music was at one time such a remarkable art form, how it's become just completely bereft of any kind of forward momentum, given that the tools are infinitely greater nowadays, is just beyond me. well, i guess it's not that beyond me, but it's a sad reflection of this first generation of kids raised in the neo-liberal reality, and the jerks that tossed them to the market wolves.
"Most of OPN’s stuff could be parodied by a fourth grader messing with a few synths and random ’80s…throw some predictably minimal cover art on it, release it whatever the ironicly cool format is this week (elusive RealPlayer codecs), and watch the indie press go gushing."
it's the realplayer codecs part that made me laugh for five minutes.
that shit was annoying. there was no freeware workaround. you had no choice but to use their proprietary software, which was maddeningly bad. like, seriously. using realplayer software would seriously make you angry at the world. you have to wonder if it's a factor for violent crime in society.
now, somebody will produce a chart that correlates the rise and fall of urban violence in the 90s with the rise and fall in the popularity of realnetworks.
you kids don't even want to know about this. just be happy it went away.
