obligatory influential...
i picked up a cassette of fixed some time around '94 or so. at first, i couldn't listen to it. it was just noise. but, i kept coming back to it out of a sense of curiosity: is there something to this under the chaos? is this something abstract i ought to understand? or is it really just a lot of noise?
it finally clicked some time in mid '95 or so, and it got stuck in my walkman after that for months and months at a time. i actually managed to literally wear the tape out, and had to repurchase on cd.
i'm not sure i've ever really got an answer to that question, so much as it acted as a means of familiarizing myself with the concept of noise as music. about half the disc is carefully sculpted and arranged. the thirlwell mixes, especially, are definitely works of art. but, there's also a good helping of total noise on the disc that exists on a kind of boundary point. if you listen to it repeatedly, patterns start to arise and you become familiar with them, meaning it does function as artistically valid from start to finish. but, it's an open question as to whether those patterns were composed or just haphazardly spliced together. the thing is that it's not obvious, either way - there is at the very least an expert level of bullshitting going on here, to the point that the question can be put aside and the record can be thoroughly enjoyed as purely abstract sound.
it's a pretty ubiquitous background influence, along with the other major nin remix discs (closer & fdts, especially). but, it really comes out very strongly on the current featured track.
(relevant tracks: why is the current featured track with the obvious influence, but fixed is a formative influence and can be heard in everything i've ever done)
Nacht Schreck
NIN's best release, without a doubt.
Wes Murray
+Nacht Schreck Not the best, IMO, but definitely overlooked and underrated. Broken & Fixed are both gems that rarely get the attention they deserve.
deathtokoalas
+Nacht Schreck i think it's without a doubt in the top tier, along with the full-length closer single and further down the spiral - and maybe the perfect drug single. motp would make the top tier, too, if it was a bit longer. also, quake. but, i think it's hard to be more specific than that.
the best material was without a doubt the remix compilations between halo 6 and 11. 5 & 8 were the best proper records, so you could maybe claim the classic period was 5-11, but they're not on the same level.
Jacob French
+Nacht Schreck The Fragile is the best, easily. Broken and Fixed were basically prototypes for TDS, and TDS served as the prelude to The Fragile.
deathtokoalas
+Jacob French for brevity, i'll let the statement stand. but, intent and outcome are not the same thing; the reality is that the fragile was an artistic failure, due largely to the lyrics and the lack of development around the album's release. a strong remix suite would have helped a lot. but, what the listener actually got was a string of half developed songs with vocals that were dragged down so far by alcoholism that they are borderline autistic. the drugs actually seemed to help him in his composition, but they had the effect of really legitimately ruining the songs through the lyrics.
i can't imagine how any halfways intelligent person could listen to the record and not deduce that he's gone full retard. because he actually did - he drank himself stupid, and the record is the consequence of it.
and that's the actual truth of it.
like i say - he could have saved the period with a strong remix set. but, what we got seemed haphazardly thrown together in a drunken haze.
Jacob French
That's what's so good about it, it's literally the morning after Trent's success of TDS. He spent all that time with destructive songs that when he tries to rebuild some semblance of his sound back up again, all he gets is this fragile haze of mixed messages.
The Wretched completely embodies his feelings about the album as a whole, it's not supposed to feel like this complete destruction in vein of Broken or TDS. It's the aftermath of the complete destruction, where Trent is just trying anything to glue his music together. That's what makes it such a perfect concept album along with TDS, it isn't supposed to sound super-polished or like some stereotypical finale to what Trent's career has been so far. He destroys his own music with TDS and The Fragile is Trent seeing if anything is left to begin again from, and in my opinion there is.
But I'm curious, what would you name NIN's best album?
deathtokoalas
+Jacob French that's the kind of rationalization people throw around at velvet underground records - this idea that it's lacklustre on purpose, and therefore brilliant. it's reaching, to say the least.
i think you've got the process drastically wrong, as well. see, here's the thing: there's an original version of the fragile that was never released and was never leaked (to my knowledge). the record label wouldn't allow it. i suspect that it's probably brilliant - and features a lot of writing that is similar to the still ep. but, he caved.
polished or not polished is a sort of ridiculous way to describe his work - it's all polished. even the nastiest, most grating parts of it. but, the record was definitely altered for mass appeal by people that weren't trent reznor. and, that is a big part of the reason it doesn't hold up.
don't get me wrong: there's enough material, there. a fully instrumental single record would have been an incredible kick to the head. and, a couple of the ballads are worth saving. but, pretty much all of the traditional "rock songs" seem written down to a caricature of his audience, under extreme pressure to produce a marketable product. you have to understand that what we got is not what was intended, and we may never hear the intended record.
in the end, the label executives won - they wanted with teeth. whatever. i'd just like to hear the actual record.
Donkey Kong
+deathtokoalas Where did you hear that?
deathtokoalas
+Donkey Kong well, i lived through the process. it was well understood. i don't remember sources from 20 years ago, but they were mainstream - look at stuff like rolling stone or spin.
he had a completely different record prepared that was more "serious", but the label rejected it and sent him back to make more hard-hitting rock songs and radio-friendly singles.
ironically, that's the reason people reacted so badly to it. it's a lot of recycled ideas (and he's still recycling those ideas). and, it's a lot of pandering to an imagined demographic. over time, what's happened is that his initial fan base has moved out and a new fan base that reflects that imagined demographic has moved in.
remember: nin fans in the 90s weren't much into rock or metal. they were mostly into techno and "industrial"; where it interfaced with rock was more in various types of post-punk. you'd have been more likely to find a nin fan into public enemy than into tool. so, it's a huge turnover in his fan base. the fragile is a kind of a pivot point, in that respect.
i pointed out elsewhere that i consider the still ep to be his last substantial release under the nin moniker. and, rumours have long been floating around that this material was initially meant for the fragile. it certainly fits the description of the rejected material, anyways, and is a good feel for what the record was intended to sound like.
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Aydin Matney
screaming slave sounds like a death grips song
deathtokoalas
+Aydin Matney not really. but you should check out the ice cube remix of i'm afraid of americans. it's everything death grips wish they could have been
