the last record was pretty much flawless. so, it's inevitable that they had to take it down a notch. the question was "how much"?
what initially bothered me about this disc was that it got a bit too bro for me, like they were reacting to the criticism that they weren't neanderthal enough. i guess defeater is going to have a fan base that considers what they do to be about as poppy as they can handle, and is going to wonder what the fuck i'm talking about. i'm on the other extreme - this is about as heavy and brocore as i can handle (i know it's not particularly so, but bro music is just not my thing. i like my loud rock of the punk variety.) without tuning out, and it seemed to be just about tipping the tables on me....
a few listens in, i began to understand it as conceptual. i mean, if you're going to write a concept record from a first person perspective about a morally bankrupt asshole, isn't it natural to lean into brocore? i then took that idea back to empty days and realized it fit - it's a dramatic record, with a dramatic storyline.
so, yeah, perhaps it's missing some of the drama. maybe it's a bit stripped down. maybe it's a bit primitive. maybe it had to be. and maybe the narrative will take us into a different flavour next time around.
i think you're almost making a valid point. i've picked up a few pieces that seem to sound roughly like this, but what you're doing is mistaking bad writers for a bad method. i would agree that the problem is compounded by the "academic establishment", who for some reason tend to pick out the worst of the bunch out of some kind of a desire for shock value. there's probably an underlying psychiatric condition that causes music teachers to hate the thing they cycle their life around. whether an expression of the ultraparadoxical or a reflection of self-loathing remains an open question in my mind, but it's gotta be something like that. it's some kind of rebellion, and that's something to cherish in principle if it doesn't always work out in practice. but, let's be blunt: this is a topic for two centuries ago. if you want to create interesting music in the 21st century, you can't be dragging the corpse of music theory around with you. holding on to music theory at this late a date is really something like holding on to creationism. or causality. pitches are mathematical objects. they exist in a continuum. any attempt to order that - be it through conventional music theory or tone rows - is just meaningless, oppressive structure.
the right way to look at it is that it's really just a question of tonal freedom. it's my composition, and i'll flat diminished if i want to, flat diminished if i want to....
the better side of it has a level of artistry that goes beyond the pretension. it just reduces to tension and release when you break it down to it's most basic. does it not seem foolhardy to restrict your emotional expression to a flawed mathematical relation? i think the best conventional composers have all understood this, and it's what really makes them stand out. standing on the other side of webern and cage just means coming to terms with it, without the hubris of pretending otherwise.
which is pretty pretentious, too.
but, i hear you - it's there, especially in the universities, and, sadly, they seem intent on upholding it.
well, jack white is almost 40, now. yeah, that's crazy, huh? so, i guess it's time to be more subtle and introspective and grown-up and all that other boring shit.
it'll happen to you, too.
</grandpa simpson>
on principle, it's not a bad thing if he wants to be a little more sophisticated. it's just that the nashville direction he's spinning in isn't going to sit well with a lot of the fans he's built up on the dirty garage/psych side of things, who'd rather hear his sophistication branch out in more of a tame impala direction (to use a contemporary act as a reference point). bluntly, a lot of us are probably going to finally trip the line with this and admit we're bored by it - not because it's "more sophisticated" but because it's just wandered too far out of our sphere of interest. the couple of mahavishnu romps seem forced. and, note that mahavishnu was not the sonics, huh?
and, that's fine. he doesn't need the cash. and we can all find something else to listen to. but, if he's smart, and he is, he'll find a way to better align his marketing apparatus with his musical future.
deathtokoalas
well, jack white still has the best tone ever in the history of guitars. man, that thing just squeals.
i'm going to interpret the rest of this as tongue-in-cheek, but i'm not really sure what the point of taking jsbx to as far of an ironic extreme as is possible really is....
ahmad almheiri
The guitar work is VERY similar to Led Zeppelin, but not nearly as good. But still a good song.
deathtokoalas
this particular track demonstrates an overall primary influence from john mclaughlin, rather than jimmy page. it's subtle, but trust me.
Justtryme90
I wish more people were influenced by Mclaughlin, Mahavishnu Orchestra are amazing.
deathtokoalas
well, it's easy to forget that it's also the case that john mclaughlin's biggest fan and primary protege was....jimmy page. he'd probably have spent the rest of his life doing session work for country musicians if mclaughlin didn't take him aside and show him a few things. but, the violin work here is very mahavishnu and the overall style is an update on the graham bond organization through a filter of jon spencer.
Ademga348
zepelin are shit band if you dont know
Thomas Haley
Zeppelin are one of the very first true Metal bands along with Sabbath. And Jimmy Page was one of the greatest guitarist ever.
deathtokoalas
but, the fact that they were early metal is why they were often a shit band. that being said,they did a few solid blues jams, and wrote a few proto-punk tunes. it's not all bad. but, most of it is...
ZGrep58
Just because a guitarist claims that his riff was stolen 40 YEARS after a massive hit was released does not mean it is true. The two songs sound faintly similar. If it was really stolen don't you think he would have noticed when it came out considering that Stairway was a massive hit?
deathtokoalas
just fwiw, these accusations of stairway being a rip are not new. i remember hearing about them when i was learning to play stairway in the early 90s (my guitar teacher at the time was a 60s/70s rock expert. he had me doing the blues classics: santana, zeppelin, hendrix. but he also had me doing some prog, like genesis. i started teaching myself nirvana, soundgarden, pumpkins, etc a few years later - and also some forgotten stuff like collective soul that had some tasty guitar playing. i think it was come as you are that got me first, but i remember spending a lot of time with superunknown and siamese dream, particularly.). i agree that it certainly took them long enough to file legal action, but it's not like nobody noticed.
further, page is known to have stolen many, many other riffs from early blues guitarists, as well as from john mclaughlin. and, that itself is really only contemptible in the context of how much money he made from it. the blues are not about artistic creativity, they're about personal expression. all the blues guitarists stole riffs from each other.
if there was absolute justice in the world, the boot of god would come down from the sky, kick jimmy in the ass and redistribute his sizable fortune across about 50 blues guitarists, many of colour, and most of whom are now dead. alas...
(deleted post)
deathtokoalas
well, stairway isn't really a blues tune. and the rip is more in the arrangement.
deathtokoalas
ok, so i've never heard anybody point out that jeff martin looks like jim morrison. really. original comments, guys.
but, have you noticed that muse has really picked up on the electro-morrocan-roll theme? i don't think tea party ever really hit success outside of canada, did they? i think there's a lot of muse fans that would have their mind blown if sent through here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q39q0fT3YiE
ez comes
HUGE fan base in Australia ... in fact Tea Party just returned from an Aussie tour. 'Temptation' just won me a pair of tickets to the Kool Haus show Toronto :)
deathtokoalas
i'm actually living in their hometown right now, and i recently even found a copy of the very first demo they send to the local radio station here at a garage sale, and i've skipped a few chances to see them recently. i saw them something like ten times in the 90s. but i'm kind of scared to go see them now. i know, it's not fair, and everything, but it's just the truth of it. there are a lot of bands from the period that i can't get the courage to go see now...
Juliette Zephyr
Why?
deathtokoalas
it just really has the potential to ruin memories. especially a band like this, that puts the vocal tone so close to the center of the sound.
Juliette Zephyr
Oh; I get it...
hey, i bought this record, but i was really disappointed by it. i think it's held up a little better than i would have suggested it was going to at the time, but it remains pretty mediocre.
with all the bullshit emo revisionism floating around, i realize the disc has taken on a different meaning than it ever really actually had. but the truth is hum were more or less just ripping off the smashing pumpkins....and not doing so particularly well...
everybody that i knew that liked hum was basically clinging on to a style that corgan himself was in the process of discarding. people desperately wanted a new smashing pumpkins record in the classic style. this was the closest thing they could find.
when hum collapsed, they were actually a casualty of alternative rock's fall from the mainstream - they were ten years behind their time, not ten years ahead of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfqGbCCFgKs
deathtokoalas
i remember picking this up in the mid 90s on massive mad rec from the smashing pumpkins online fan community (alt.fan.smashing-pumpkins) and just being massively disappointed. there was a sort of basic aesthetic similarity, the drummer is obviously a jimmy chamberlin fan, but it sounded like the pumpkins post-lobotomy - no passion, no emotion. the delivery is just totally cold and robotic. the lead work has no individuality whatsoever. keep in mind that adore hadn't even been released yet...
i ended up finding what i was looking for in sonic youth, and, a little later on, my bloody valentine.
brandon blackwell
The muted vocal style brings out the background and lyrics and really, the song itself.
I love the 90s Pumpkins and all but Hum is king.
deathtokoalas
when you separate yourself this far from the music, you eliminate the art form and reduce it to some kind of stale academic exercise. it's boring...
Dale Hensley
I think you'd be more impressed with downward is heavenward. That's got more forward tunes on it. He's always had that monotone voice though. I don't know if it's this deliberate separation, with the goal of being this obviously individual band. Hum is associated with that whole mid-west emo scene, but I think they're closer to bands like Codeine (sad-core, or whatever the hell it is). I think they stick out more because the music has this nice progression to it, and it's more emotionally involved. I think the monotone voice compliments that idea. It's fucking awesome, in my humble opinion.
deathtokoalas
i actually picked them both up at the same time, and i did indeed like downward is heavenward a bit more.
KDowah
"seperate yourself" from the music? That sounds rather subjective.
deathtokoalas
they seem to be approaching the task of writing a song in the same way that people solve math problems, rather than as an outlet of expression. ironically, i find that this is a dominant characteristic of what has been strangely called "emo" - it's lack of emotional investment, in favour of this stale, clinical approach.
Andrew D
You are only here to criticize and that is sad. Im sure you can find better things to do with your life than try to be a cold glass of water.
deathtokoalas
sometimes, we all need a cold glass of water dumped on us.
i'm here to analyze. there's a difference.
best deftones record ever.
not sarcastic. they're actualizing the vision in a way deftones haven't been able to. maybe they have more freedom to avoid constraints and preconceptions. dunno. but for somebody that's tried more than twice to get into deftones, and would definitely enjoy their work more if they'd drop the macho stupidity, this hits the spot.
there's a new album out any day, now. i'd argue it's one of the most anticipated records of the year....
deathtokoalas
yeah, i couldn't get into the earlier stuff either, but what's breaking through the sound on the disc is the stacked 6ths - which is an oldskool melodic hardcore thing. i know you want to think newer bands. but, i'd be more likely to suggest it's in utero + brian baker + husker du. i'm wanting to take it back a bit because it doesn't have the kind of pointless macho aggression that really ruined hardcore through the 90s and into the 00s, but has mostly receded through this "screamo revival" thing. so, i'd actually want to align it with stuff like animal faces, touche amore, defeater, native....
i caught 'em in a 50 person bar in ottawa last year and it was definitely a show of the face melting variety - and the right way to experience the record.
Taimir Gore
What are stacked 6ths?
deathtokoalas
there's a technical definition that i'm using a little bit haphazardly, but what i mean to say is that the chords often include the sixth of the scale in them, as well as higher notes (like a transposed 4th). that gives it that thicker, jazzier sound. as mentioned, it's a defining characteristic of 80s hardcore.
Taimir Gore
Ah okay. Makes sense.
it's too bad they're into all the cliched satanic imagery and dumbass metal poseur bullshit, which tends to attract morons, because these kids can put down a riff when they need to. it's like if you gave the melvins a lobotomy...
this one actually stands up alright without vocals, but i think it's partly because i'm less conditioned to portishead and spiritualized.
Tuesday, June 24, 2014
as an instrumental work, this holds up better than the resistance, but in the end there's no reason not to choose 65dos or dmst instead.
well, that's a good idea.
i was recently finally able to enjoy some dream theatre due to finding a japanese instrumental release...
now, if we could get rush to re-release their entire back catalog minus neil peart's "philosophical lyrics"....
you know, i've tried to get into muse so many times, and i can get behind the epic grandiosity in principle, but i just don't know how you guys can handle those vocals without throwing things at your stereo and pleading with them to stop.
back in the 90s, there was a band from canada called the tea party. edges of twilight. transmission. great discs, check 'em out - and with vocals that don't produce a "strangle" response.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Blze6oiHyek
deathtokoalas
not to deny the circularity of the observation, but the blunt truth is that, in 2004, this is indistinguishable from the mass of neo-prog acts trying to emulate genesis c. 1972 - and not much better than any random one you could pull out of the swarm.
sorry, mr. wilson. but supper's not just cold. it's started decomposing.
Ella Wilbury
hahahahah dude. you're hilarious
GeometryofLove 528Hz
but smile was written and recorded in 66
deathtokoalas
this is not the version done in 1966. which was unreleased. i think it was even lost. this version dates to 2003/2004.
i mean, you'll note that i tried to avoid the circularity. but this is really worse than marillion.
i do need to reiterate that life really is almost absolutely perfect for me right now. if i could define an existence for myself in a computer model, it would be almost exactly the life that i'm living right now. excluding border papers, there's nothing i want that i don't have. i have unrestricted free time. i'm getting some work done for the first time in many years. i legitimately couldn't be happier.
Monday, June 23, 2014
deathtokoalas
yeah. i'm not really a fan of colin's other stuff (i can handle bits of krallice because it's really a type of hardcore but would like it a lot better if it was instrumental. i just find the vocals get in the way, preventing relistening.) but this just blew me away when i first heard it. i actually stumbled upon this when it was pretty fresh, before his other projects really got off the ground, on a random google search for frank zappa. there was another search term, but i can't remember it. this was about '08 or so. the climax of this has to be one of the most ridiculous things i've ever heard. and i specialize in liking ridiculous music :).
deathtokoalas
i have really vivid memories of blaring this through a pair of giant headphones while stumbling around stoned through the underground tunnels of carleton university at around 4:00 am, preparing graduate level mathematics assignments in automata theory.
MATH RAWK. lol....
must have helped, though. i think it's the only pure math exam i ever got 100% on, although i aced a few programming exams in the same period, too. i was this, some early 65dos and some later boredoms that were the staples in the mp3 player at the time...
so, you know, fuck mozart.....
Timothy E.
"i can handle bits of krallice because it's really a type of hardcore" what?
deathtokoalas
krallice seem to have a specific bent coming out of post-hardcore that is most noticeable in the tremolo guitar work.
i suppose that, standing in 1966, this would have been really radical and different.
but, standing in 1996, and beyond, what defines the record is how simplistic and boring it is relative to the other psychedelic rock of the period. reality: zappa, beatles, hendrix, moody blues, floyd did it better. this may have been first, but it just doesn't cut it, in comparison.
da fuck? when did paul mccartney drop his stripped down rock schtick and get back to being creative? what a nice surprise.....
so, it's entirely predictable that sending in military thugs and shelling apartments is going to create resentment and strengthen resistance...
the question, now, is if reconciliation is possible or if the crackdown has permanently pulled the region out of kiev's sphere of governance.
bottom line: somebody ought to chop off poroshenko's penis to prevent him from thinking with it. this is just utter tactical stupidity, from any perspective.
so, it's entirely predictable that sending in military thugs and shelling apartments is going to create resentment and strengthen resistance...
the question, now, is if reconciliation is possible or if the crackdown has permanently pulled the region out of kiev's sphere of governance.
bottom line: somebody ought to chop off poroshenko's penis to prevent him from thinking with it. this is just utter tactical stupidity, from any perspective.
Friday, June 20, 2014
hey, i don't know how i managed to get 100 people to decide to subscribe to my youtube channel, but i somehow did manage to do just that. keep an eye out for signs of the apocalypse...
in the meantime, i think this calls for a celebration.
deathtokoalas
this is a 4 /4 reworking of an early autechre track - yulquen, from amber.
jetpilotband
Hmmm... Autechre! I think I shall now listen to Incunabula and search for inspiration!
deathtokoalas
you wouldn't be the first. musicians don't seem to have stopped listening, but, for some reason, they got sort of unpopular in the late 90s as a result of shifting to really abstract, digital soundscapes. but it's a matter of time before that's re-evaluated and their immense importance is properly understood.
Thursday, June 19, 2014
it seems that circumstances are going to lead me to take my own life in september or october, so i'm putting all other things on permanent hiatus and focusing solely on music, to try and get as much done as i can before i die.
Wednesday, June 18, 2014
Paul Walker
why does the Iraqi girl at 1.53 look European?
deathtokoalas
as others have pointed out, there is a continuum of ethnic iranians through the north of syria and iraq, into iran and north into afghanistan. but, it's an error to suggest that indo-europeans (indo-germanic isn't a good term,for historical reasons) are inherently light skinned or connected to europe. a substantial portion of indo-european speakers today live in india, and it's widely accepted that their origins are somewhere in central asia. that is to say that the child does not "look european". she is simply light-skinned.
precise kurdish origins remain difficult to establish, but they speak an iranian language and it's generally thought that they descend from the earliest iranian invasions into the region. some people suggest they may be related to a group of people historically known as "medes", but this is mostly speculation. regardless, something along those lines is roughly correct. that places their entrance into the region, probably from the northeast, at roughly 1000 years before the common era. stated tersely: light-skinned people have continuously occupied the north of syria and iraq for roughly 3000 years. further, to their slight north, exist armenians and various caucasian groups, whom are also all light-skinned and have been in the region even longer.
it is true that ancient mesopotomian groups (like babylonians) were semitic, and probably of tanned complexion. however, they never expanded far outside of the fertile crescent; light-skinned ancestors of armenians and what we today call christian assyrians (like urartians) existed in the north of syria and iraq.
the oldest group known to modern iran are called elamites and are thought to have probably looked like some modern indians (they may have spoken a language related to the dravidian languages, but this is far too difficult to reconstruct with certainty). these groups were slowly displaced by invading iranians over a period of roughly 1000 years. starting about 500 years before the common era, light-skinned iranians were the dominant cultural and political force through syria, iran and iraq for another thousand years. the struggle between first greece and then rome and persia existed in the context of white emperor against white emperor.
the seventh century saw a series of catastrophic wars between persia and rome that left both of them unable to defend their borders. this allowed some muslim conquerors to "liberate" the semites in the south of iraq and what was then called judea from persian and roman rule, respectively, and put them under the control of a growing center of power in the city of medina. starting around the year 700, waves of arab settlers began to migrate into areas that muslim warlords had conquered, from both persia and rome. the persians were conquered entirely, and the romans never fully recovered. multiple waves of turkish and mongolian invasions followed, but they were largely assimilated. this constructs the broad boundaries of the existing ethnic divisions in the middle east.
eventually, the british carved an irrational state out of the ottoman empire that tried to create a coalition between a northern iranian region and a southern arabic region, but it's perhaps naive to suggest this was done out of ignorance.
so, the short answer is that light-skinned people are actually indigenous to this region, which is historically connected to central asia, and the typical darker-skinned "arabic-looking" person is in fact only really indigenous to the arabian peninsula.
(deleted)
deathtokoalas
the indigenous people of that region were asssyrians, before the kurds helped carry out a genocide of them around the first world war. the kurds are thought to be indigenous to the zagros mountains.
however, there is no historical record of the kurdish people before the dawn of islamic imperialism. it's not difficult to deduce that they've probably been around the mountains for a very long time, but it is not possible to connect them to a past ethnic group. medes have been presented as a good guess, but it's ultimately without compelling evidence.
the kurds could, for example, descend from a group of iranian migrants fleeing the islamic advance, or they could be a late migration of alans or ...
i haven't read that text, but i've read enough on the topic to know that what the genetic analysis has demonstrated is that the people of the region demonstrate a genetic continuity and similarity to their neighbours. that is to say that kurds are genetically similar to assyrians, northern arabs and armenians. that doesn't do anything to prove origin, it just proves that the groups have mixed over the period they've been in contact. the same kind of analysis will state that the welsh and english are genetically similar, but we have historical records that tell us they have different origins. (deleted) deathtokoalas
i'm going to respond to this and then block the commenter, because i'm not interested in the kind of language being used. my primary source was cavalli-sforza many years ago, updated along the way with various articles that i didn't think to document, as i wasn't expecting to be asked for sources on youtube 15 years later. but, i need to stress that i haven't just looked at results of studies, i've analysed the math underlying them.
the indigenous people of the area - assyrians - are not closely related to southern arabs at all. they show a stronger genetic resemblance to jews, but are also the most distinct group in the region. some people will suggest that, due to religious differences (being christian in a sea of muslims) there has been less genetic mixture between assyrians and other groups and this is why assyrians seem to demonstrate a bottleneck. however, it should be noted that the aforementioned genocide no doubt substantially reduced the amount of genetic diversity present in the assyrian population, making it difficult to come to meaningful conclusions as to how widespread the genetic flow was amongst the assyrians, who live continuously in the area for 3000 years before they were mass slaughtered, and the people around them.
the bigger point i'm trying to get across is that what these genetic studies have demonstrated is not that whatever group is from whatever area, but that groups that live in close proximity tend to demonstrate dramatic gene flow. assyrians, armenians, kurds and a number of the turks of the region are genetically indistinguishable from each other.there is no way to use genetics to demonstrate a person's exact ethnicity, and groups that live in close proximity are not genetically distinct from each other.
it was initially thought that genetics would help us classify races. instead, what genetics has taught us is that there is no biological basis for the concept of race. it is simply not a scientific concept.
worse, you seem to be making a very elementary error in the way you're interpreting the data. i don't know if your source makes the same error or not, but if it doesn't then you're misunderstanding it. you're not just confusing genetic continuity with ethnic continuity, which a stigma has not built up against yet but is wrong nonetheless, but you're making the massive faux pas of confusing linguistic continuity with genetic continuity, which i tried to correct the original posters on. finding that skeletons in the region have dna that is similar to modern kurdish dna is not demonstrating kurdish-speaking continuity or kurdish-identifying continuity. it is merely demonstrating genetic continuity. this could, and in fact usually does, happen when a group of invading people interbreed with a dominant indigenous group, as likely happened when the kurds moved from (probably, not certainly) the zagros mountains into the region. i gave you an example of this phenomenon in britain - english speakers are predominantly celtic-british, like the welsh, despite speaking a language and identifying as an ethnic group that invaded from germany. you haven't demonstrated anything about where the kurds came from, you've just demonstrated that they had sex with the people that lived there when they got there.
with that, i now block.
(deleted)
deathtokoalas
he got one in before i blocked...
i repeat that there was no mention of the kurds until the arab invasion. kurd is actually an arab word that means something like "wanderer". it would be difficult for greeks and sumerians to describe an ethnic group named by arab invaders. so, i'm not going to ask for a source because i already know it's bullshit. if he's not just making it up, he's certainly drawing on a source that tries to extrapolate kurdish history backwards by identifying them with other groups. but as i've stated, that can't be done through more than crude guesswork, because the term is not indigenous in origin and whatever the original indigenous term actually was has been lost to us. it's little more than a hunch, but the etymology of the term is why i'm of the opinion that the kurds probably moved west as a result of being displaced by arabs moving into iran. they may have been refugees. note that this region was also the battleground between persia and rome for upwards of a thousand years, so it would make sense that the end of that conflict would lead to an increase in migration into a newly peaceful area.
as an aside, the linguistic evidence (which is more compelling than genetic evidence when it comes to migration of ethnic identity) puts the derivation of the kurdish language from persian in northwest iran about the year 100 or so. so, if we understand the genetic evidence properly (which rejects the kurds as a race distinct from the people around them), and we rely on the linguistic evidence as a means of determining ethnogenesis instead, it would have to be stated that the kurds didn't even exist as an ethnic group at the time of the sumerians or babylonians.
i'm also going to post a link for further reference. this is a little bit dated, and i wouldn't take the chart too seriously (if you read the write-up, it explains that the differences are slight. these charts are also sort of cherry picked. minor variations in the model that take into account different expressions create different relationships. the key is that the cluster from pathan up to "turkish" (iranian, here. the greeks didn't leave a mark in anatolia, either, but the persians did) is closely related. also, throwing pathan and tajiki in is sort of a curveball. it's a control, really. that shouldn't be read as that armenians are closely related to afghans. it should be read as armenians are closer to afghans than they are to yemenis, which is not very close in either way. a larger sample of ethnicities would separate them out.), but it gets the point of genetic continuity (rather than genetic difference) being dominant across the middle east.
i don't think you're helping yourselves by marketing yourselves as industrial music. as a genre, it pretty much ceased to exist about 1996. further, industrial music is at it's core a type of political music that is centered on the concept of using shock value as a tool to awaken people to the twisted reality we inhabit. this absolutely rules out obliviously dancing around with bear masks at pyjama parties.
you'd be better off calling yourselves whatever the animal collective call themselves. something with the word pop in it. and, industrial pop is taken - it's what nine inch nails were in the late 80s.
marketing yourselves as "industrial" is just going to attract creepy old people that aren't going to want to go dance with you in your bear costumes. well, except the ones that do, who you mostly want to avoid. strenuously.
Sunday, June 15, 2014
tigers and humans (as well as lions and humans, and crocs and humans) have evolved in a predator-prey relationship. it's not like that with bears or wolfs or even with leopards. there is absolutely no way to get one of these things to see you as anything more than food. it just boggles my mind that due to whatever arrogance or religious thinking or whatever else, people don't realize that we are not at the top of the food chain in certain parts of the world.
even with that taken into account, the general understanding of any kind of beast is that once they kill once they will kill again. this is the reason we kill crocs and wolves and mountain lions that get one of us. so, i don't understand how the tiger was not put down by law enforcement after it's first victim.
ok, this describes me pretty well, except perhaps the manipulative part (i'd rather avoid people altogether than try and turn them into personal puppets), but what's the problem if i'm happier interacting with a book or a guitar than a human being? in the context of spectrum politics and individual rights, it strikes me as more of a question of economics. it kind of makes me a "free rider", but there's not much i can do about it besides go through some kind of brainwashing. on the other hand, if we modified our economic system to focus more on using technology as a distributive tool, then we could all be happy introverts living in our closed realities as we walk around from one machine to the next. so, is this a negative disorder, or are we actually pushing the genome forward?
yeah, this sounds remarkably like rush a little later in their career. *shrug*. hope people are having fun....
roll the bones, guys...
this is the first i've heard of this. the rush comparison is honestly pretty astute, but it's not absolute. the verses are very rush. i didn't pick up any ayn rand references, though, so i think it's safe for general consumption. really, it kind of sounds quite a bit like early 90s pumpkins, too, dontcha think?
Saturday, June 14, 2014
the sad reality nowadays is that google fails far more often than it succeeds.
deathtokoalas
isn't it obvious that the cub is too small to offer much of a meal, but could act as a trojan horse to catch a bigger one? lions normally hunt in packs. if it's solitary, how is the lion supposed to catch a big meal? it needs a better trick. as soon as the cub gets close to the herd, it tries to ambush....
i'm a little skeptical about lions being empathetic, but i'm comfortable with the idea that they're very sneaky and very smart.
Alastair Leith
You look pretty miserable too :-)
deathtokoalas
you know, i get a comment on that almost every day. it's a shot i took when hungover, and uploaded because it's the last thing people expect to see in a profile pic nowadays.
Alastair Leith
Winning! And why do you hate koalas?
deathtokoalas
clearly, it's their nefarious level of cuteness.
Jason P
That's exactly what I thought, too. The lion was using the baby as bait to find bigger meals -- the baby was just too small for it to satisfy.
Rob Scha Nay Nay
Good idea but it doesnt seem so. Not all nature needs purpose
deathtokoalas
it's not about purpose in some grander scheme of things, it's about understanding specific behaviour in the specific circumstance. lions cannot hunt large prey by themselves. it follows that she has no choice but to come up with a different tactic.
lions aren't the best at chasing things. instead, they rely on ambushing. one lion will sneak up behind the group of ungulates, startling it to run directly towards another; they try to manipulate their prey to run towards them, rather than chase them down and only chase when the ambush fails. they're really good at using the landscape to help them with this, and good at positioning themselves to take advantage of angles. i don't suspect they're doing the geometry mathematically, but they seem to get it intuitively. when lions are not able to hunt in packs, they're forced to rely on easier and smaller prey, like warthogs, or go after the old and young. if you think about it, the way they hunt is essentially herding behaviour, but with a kill at the end of it.
it's not that big a jump to go from ambushing the ungulates to using a baby to get close to them. i mean, it's an ambush tactic, either way. both are means to get close to the prey. i agree this appears to be novel behvaiour, but the jump in abstraction of thought is really not high, given what we already know about them.
further, as i mentioned previously, the video clearly demonstrates that this is what the lion is doing: it's allowing the calf to get close to the herd, then stalking around it. they didn't observe the tactic as successful, but the behaviour demonstrated is really blatant from the images in the film.
Rob Scha Nay Nay
I meant a purpose with respect to its survivability. It could just be a motherly glitch its CNS that has no bearing on its evolutionary success.
deathtokoalas
well, it could be, but the evidence doesn't seem to suggest that.
i just need to point out that i realize the film suggests the lion caught an antelope on her own, but this seems to be a mistake. the longer version suggests she ate a warthog. my best guess on that is that the calf is an antelope, and the speaker had a mental freeze.
it is very difficult for a lone lioness to catch a grown antelope, and warthogs make up the core diet of single lions. she'd have to be an exceptional hunter to pull off that feat, which is clearly not the case. that's why they hunt in packs.
Alex F
HOLY SHIT I just clicked on your channel. I'm scared now.
deathtokoalas
i think more people should click on my channel, but there's really no reason to be afraid.
unless you're a scaredy-cat...
simone4447
i think the lioness was hunting then fail yet the baby live, now the lioness have no idea what to do so she just stay with the cub. after-all she was raised by humans so she wasn't really trained by her mother to hunt correctly ...
deathtokoalas
where did you get the information that the lioness was raised by humans? if true, it's kind of a fail that the doc didn't mention it, and i need to modify my opinion. everything in the doc suggests that this is a wild lioness. it even hypothesizes that she may have been separated from her pride.
Cari Schumann
but lions often eat babies or sick or elderly prey so to say the baby was not satisfying meal can't be right lions are opportunistic hunters they eat what they can it's obvious the lion was nurturing the baby she could have eaten at anytime
deathtokoalas
lions will eat a baby as a snack if they know they can eat a real meal later. if they know they can't, it stands to reason that they might try a different tactic.
it wasn't nurturing it, either, it was starving it...
think of it like this: you might fry up a minnow as a delicacy (just go with it) if you know there's a supermarket near by. but, if you know you're going to be out in the wilderness for a while, you'd realize it makes more sense to use that minnow as bait to catch a bigger fish.
the lion is quite clearly stalking the larger animals when they go to investigate the calf. it didn't work, but it's obvious that it's what it was doing.
DHD9
your giving lions too much credit, I can't explain this, but I watch bog cat dairies and lionsll eat anything, including lion cubs. They don't care about size. And it let the calf feed so it wasn't deliberately starving it
deathtokoalas
when lions eat lion cubs, it's a territorial and genetic thing. there's a number of animals that they will kill and not eat - most notably cheetahs, who they seem to not want around for competitive reasons. they'll just storm a cheetah family, kill the babies and walk off. it seems they're killing them to avoid competition, but i don't think anybody really understands why they don't bother eating them on top of it.
i don't think the lion is starving the cub on purpose, either - it ultimately is going to want it to survive long enough to get close to the larger one. letting it close enough to feed, and taking a run during the distraction, is the whole point.
kristian perez
this theory makes no sense, how does the presence of a baby make others come closer ? if anyhting the presence of the lioness would drive off any other orix (forgive my spelling)
that and when the lioness did find a group she went straight for the baby rather than the other orix,
deathtokoalas
a mother oryx will be attracted to a calf in need because it does have motherly instincts towards it. they'll even try and protect their offspring from attack, and can sometimes succeed. so, if the lioness places the baby oryx just a little away from the herd, it will attract the mother away, where the lioness can more easily ambush. if you watch the video (or the longer version, i don't remember) again, you'll see that this is what happens - except that the mother oryx didn't take the bait long enough to get into pouncing range.
again, you have to realize that lions are very inefficient hunters when left alone. they rely heavily on their pack to hunt. the reason the lioness doesn't go straight for the larger antelopes is that it knows it can't catch them.
in packs, lions are apex predators and probably the most ferocious and deadly creatures on the planet. alone, they're forced to compete with other mid-level carnivores like jackals and cheetahs for much smaller prey.
kristian perez
if i recall, wasnt the baby oryx the reason for it being alone in the first place ? (other lions kept trying to kill it)
deathtokoalas
no.
simone4447
i like your idea of the lioness using the baby to get closer to prey but when the park guards tried feeding her meat to stop them from starving, the lioness didnt take it. If that was her intent to use the baby it must of change while they were together or she did want meat while being with the baby. idk but this wouldnt have happened if the lioness pride wasnt killed when she was young.
deathtokoalas
i think there's a lot of reasons why the lioness may or may not have taken possibly unsafe meat from humans and it's a big jump to deduce it had anything to do with the baby antelope.
Friday, June 13, 2014
Tr Lý
Based on my knowledge, Cossack is from Russia right? So tell me that it's a "People" Army or a Mercenary Army? Drew DEI
Actually and historically Cossacks are from Ukraine - they basically founded Ukrainan statehood in Middle Ages. But later some of them (Don's cossacks) appeared to be on the territory of Russia. Modern russian "cossacks" are mostly role-players poisoned by imperial russian "rising-from-the-knees" propaganda
deathtokoalas
insofar as cossack is an ethnic tern, and it mostly isn't, it refers to a turkish people we now call "kazakhs". they were a type of pirate through the middle ages that survived primarily by raiding and plundering, but that was aligned with the russians as a mercenary force over time. this had a "civilizing effect" on them, and they assimilated into the countryside.
it follows that what you call "cossack" today has virtually nothing to do with what was called "cossack" centuries ago. i'm still trying to make sense of the way the media is using this, but it seems to me something people are self-identifying as and what makes the most sense to me is consequently that the term must translate more or less to "mercenary" - it must be a military rather than an ethnic term.
Thor Jørgensen
There are no real Cossacks left anymore, just like how there are no real knights, hussars or vikings.
But any real Cossacks would have been in Ukraine 14th to mid 18th century including Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and Cossack Hetmanate.
Drew DEI
Yeah, and regarding the initial question - In "people" "army" by my information there are like 80% of mercenaries, and only about 20% - local people. and there are no some monolith structure actually but some groups and gangs consisting of local criminals, but as I see, some normal people also support this. it is sad.
Vladimir Semiglazov
what information???? the one you just made up???
Илья Аленин
there are Ukranian (Zaporozhye) and Russian (Don, Cuban etc) cossacks: ZaporozhyeCossacks fighted against Poland and united with Russia, russian cossacks were peasants which flinged off landlords
deathtokoalas
the ukrainians initially had to bring in mercenaries because the soldiers didn't want to shoot at their own people. we're talking about cossacks and varangians, here. similar mindset. oldest tactic in the book. however, they seem to have been replaced at least partially by ukrainian nationalists from the maidan protests, who seem to be less discerning. unfortunately.
whether cossack means mercenary or not, it's clear there are russian agents operating. so, it's not one or the other. it's both.
Drew DEI
what mercenaries? our country cannot even buy bulletproof vests for the amry, we are doing it by ourselves. Do you at list imagine what money are necessary to hire professional mercenary army? Official wage of Ukraine military soldier is about $200.
deathtokoalas
i can't answer that, but i'd remind you that ukraine is notorious for shady financing and money laundering. the reports were coming out of germany. i don't think they speculated on financing.
Thursday, June 12, 2014
what they don't realize is that they are liberals and what they think is liberalism is actually a type of right-wing populism pushed historically by the progressive party, often as a front for christian groups. liberals are all about free speech, free markets and individual rights. crucially, they're strongly in favour of a separation of church and state.
what these idiots have succeeded in is little more than to confuse people about words and concepts that they don't actually have a good understanding of. if you watch the show, you're left to conclude that liberals are a type of fundamentalist christian.
rather, a liberal is exactly what stone and parker are, and their target of ridicule is religiosity - bordering on what engels called utopian socialism.
deathtokoalas
i used to hate thursday, but this disc is one of the best pure pop records i've heard in a while. this is really the only thursday record worth listening to.
matthew robinson
what are u kidding me ? there sound is differnt in everey recording/album...they are one of the most underated bands and they were ahead of there time back in ealy 00's.
deathtokoalas
i think it's more accurate to suggest that thursday were mostly stuck in the 80s. they tended to wear their influences fairly loudly; i think that a big factor underlying their overratedness is that people aren't really familiar with those influences. even that's not really catastrophic, but what they tended to do was essentially to barf all over cure songs. it's not a stretch to suggest that it's like listening to really bad karoake.
the theme that comes out in their work is that the vocals become less and less annoying. it's only here, finally, that they're able to get out of that scene. but, it seems like the band wasn't meant to actually get out of that scene.
i wouldn't expect much from the band members in the future. they at no point demonstrated much of any creative potential. but, they seem to have focused enough on trying to sound like radiohead on this disc that they fluked out on a better than average pop disc.
Zalgo Leegend
Pop? Did she say pop?
deathtokoalas
this is very pure pop/rock music, with essentially no hint of abstraction beyond it. i'm sorry if you grew up in a period where pop is so terrible that you can't recognize that, but it is what it is - and it is pop.
maybe all this information collecting may actually tell you things about yourself you don't realize. youtube was initially trying to market me channels based on my gender, but as it built up more information it started marketing emo (the really bad, redundantly hair metal, major label stuff) to me - which is completely wrong, but at least somewhat rational based on the evidence it has. now, it's marketing me new country music, which i'm not understanding. my best guess is that it's algorithm considers grunge to be a type of roots music, which may have some value to it as an observation but doesn't apply to me at all. i've always interacted with grunge as though it's an offshoot of hardcore, itself an offshoot of punk. to extrapolate watching "do the evolution" as "i must like new country music, because it's the same band that did better man, which is sort of almost a country song" is more than a little bit off base.
but, it constructs a question: is the computer just clueless, or is it reflecting a general perception? and is that general perception less wrong when applied to other individuals? if the computer enforces it enough, will it become reality?
i'm sure it'll change again. for now, it thinks i'm a natural blake shelton fan.
Wednesday, June 11, 2014
deathtokoalas
my experience is that geeks are actually generally jocks deep down that couldn't hack the hierarchy, so they end up hanging out with nerds (who tend to be more open-minded) by default and build up these passive aggressive inferiority complexes against them as a result of being constantly incapable of keeping up with them. over time, it just seethes into this sort of animosity, and in the end their inner jocks come out and they end up acting like assholes, which creates a more hostile reaction from the nerds.
in the end, it's really the geeks that are actual outcasts, as they end up hated by the jocks they couldn't compete with and the nerds they feel inferior to. nerds, on the other hand, generally remove themselves from society out of a lack of any interest.
i don't fit all the stereotypes. i don't game, for example. and i'm a guitarist (albeit a classical guitarist). but i definitely identify more with nerds.
A Typical Guy.
Mind blown..
TheWondermittens
Beautifully said
Alice Pan
I'm more of a geek than a nerd, but I don't get what you're trying to say? I'm not really social (if I could I wouldn't go have social interaction with more than 3 people) and trying to hang out with jocks or nerds, I have some friends who are nice and they're not really nerds, geeks or jocks.
deathtokoalas
i think i made myself clear. is there a specific aspect that isn't?
people aren't numbers so these categories aren't perfect, but geeks are generally people that would be jocks if the jocks didn't look down on them because they fail at jock things and consequently never really drop the type of hierarchical thinking that nerds tend to absolutely categorically reject. so, in their own minds, they end up trapped in between two different rungs on the hierarchy - they perceive of themselves as better than nerds but not as good as jocks and really "settle" for nerds as companions until they're able to somehow climb to the next rung, and all the while holding them in contempt. the thing is that they're actually generally not good at nerd things, either. over time, it tends to eat away at them and cause them all kinds of self-doubt, as they're constantly unable to keep up with the nerds at nerd things. that feeling of inadequacy is a direct result of that kind of jockish hierarchical thinking, which is the core of the problem. as they perceive of nerds as below them, and they have this persistent kind of competitive jock thinking, losing to nerds at nerd things sets off all these weird reactions and strange behaviours to try and keep themselves above the nerds in their own minds. it ultimately results in them behaving like the jocks that they really are.
i suppose the odd geek might grow out of high school, but my experience is that they usually don't. but i think you'd have to be in your late 20s at the least to have an experience of what happens to geeks as they age. as more of a self-identified nerd, i'd really caution younger nerds to avoid them as they grow older, because almost all of them will eventually turn into jerks.
is that clearer or is there something else you want a better explanation of?
GabeCoding
I can't tell what gender you are OP
deathtokoalas
how does it have anything to do with the contents of the post?
Tuesday, June 10, 2014
deathtokoalas
it might sound outrageous to the average rock fan that does not know a music note from a hockey stick, but what's being expressed in this video is accurate. you could maybe compare ginger to a phil collins or a billy cobham, but moon and bonham are really amateurish punks by comparison.
Andy Thomas
Phil Collins?!?!? Isn't he some retired actor? Who lives in Switzerland for tax purposes! Billy Cobham was truly gifted and wouldn't be too happy to be mentioned in the same breath as the Collins monster!
deathtokoalas
as i'm sure you're well aware, phil collins was amongst the most talented drummers of his generation. in addition to his work with genesis from 1970 to 1975, his work with brand x also showcases his drumming skills.
IamUncledeuce
That's a bit strong.... but Baker is right. Clapton was right on in his assessment of Baker. Baker's jazz stuff is really good. The disappointment for me was that Baker wasn't to received Cream royalties... what a total rip. Sad really.
Andy Thomas
I'm with you. It should have been more equal. But lots of bands had the same problem. The Who are the classic example. Townshend earned shedloads more than the others because of his publishing. Its the way of the world I'm afraid.
daz samuels
He didn't get royalties because he didn't write the songs. Correct me if I wrong.
Uncle Deuce
You are correct. But some bands split up all monies equally. Mitch Mitchell (Hendrix drummer) and Noel Redding died almost penniless and Hendrix rather depended on Mitchells drum style. Noel Redding is arguably the touring bassist and earned scale. Mitchell earned scale as well. As Copeland comments that writers and lyricists make royalties, arrangers don't earn anything. The Doors, split everything evenly, Morrison insisted on it. It is not unheard of to split profits equally. The Beatles didn't split equally, but they did divide to a formula.
deathtokoalas
yeah. the way "writing" is defined in pop music is basically a lot of nonsense. neither clapton nor bruce wrote the drum parts, but that's not legally important. it really should be.
Andy Thomas
You make a very good point!
daz samuels
The argument rightly or wrongly could be ' would these songs have made LESS money with a different drummer ?'.
deathtokoalas
i'd hazard a guess that ginger sold roughly 10x as many records as bruce did. but, cream was clapton. the rhythm section wouldn't have mattered a whole lot to much of anybody, really, so long as it was "good".
but i don't think that's the right question. the idea that ginger didn't contribute to the writing process is really a lot of bollocks. i mean, listen to white room or sunshine of your love and tell me he doesn't deserve a writing credit. it's silliness.
daz samuels
Your probably right, it's tit for tat anyway. They were a great group. And they must have all influenced the writing, so yeah. Isn't it funny that in the sixties so many British bands in the rock blues pop sector wrote their own tracks.
Andy Thomas
No No No. Any rhythm section wouldn't have done at all! It was Bruce/Baker that made Cream different. More inventive. Bruce was a PROPER musician for a start. Not just a hippie with a Bass. Just as it was Moon that made The Who different. Can you imagine any other drummer of the '60s being in The Who? No. Neither can Kenny Jones!!
deathtokoalas
well, so many didn't, too.
the fairest thing would have been to split it four ways, and give clapton two shares for vocals/guitar. but, the rules come out of the classical era, when there was a strict separation between composers and performers. fuck, look at richard wright - forced to work as a "salaried musician" in a band that he practically defined the style for.
daz samuels
I was raised on Clapton and my father loves Cream and the sixties groups. He must gave all the original vinyls and he really rates what Clapton did with 'forever man' ,and from the cradle -the tribute album and all the live stuff claptons done in the last 20 years ,which is a classic and easily comparable musically to the cream years and derek and the dominos. I've no idea what Baker has done since -I should check that out but EC still rules probably more so than any other white blues musician. U have to see the BB King/ Clapton performance 'the thrill is gone' they did at the White House in 99'- very cool. I think he might have another really good 5 years doing live shows.
I know what you mean about Richard Wright dude. He got shafted.
PoeticJustice05
There's a difference between rock and jazz, obviously. I would take Bonzo over Cobham on a rock record any day, anytime, period. And I would take Cobham over just about anybody on a jazz record, any day, anytime, period. As for Ol' Phil? He was the best drummer Genesis ever had, but I wouldn't put him above Bonham in the rock realm, although prog is a bit of a different story.
deathtokoalas
clapton's really a bit of an ass if you look into some of the comments he's made. and, really, cream were probably the least inventive of the major 60s blues groups. they're mostly a singles act, really.
baker has done a lot of interesting "world" and "fusion" music. i'm more of a fan of his solo work than i am cream, actually. it's worth exploring, if you like the style.
Andy Thomas
Publishing law has nothing to do with the Classical Era. The great composers composed on piano. How could Beethoven perform a symphony? Its Copyright law. You invent something, you own the rights to it! Simple! I think Richard Wright was ripped off by Gilmour And Mason too. Without him and Waters they could hardly have continued as Pink Floyd. Wright should have told them to fuck off!!
deathtokoalas
no, you've got it backwards, it's not about performing but about writing. it's the people that wrote the notes down on to paper (beethoven in the distant past, and jazz composers in the less distant past) that get the ownership. the performers in beethoven's orchestra got a pay check for their labour, as ginger did.
bruce was good at what he did, but he was hardly a unique talent. he'd certainly have to be replaced by somebody that knew what they were doing, but there wasn't really a deficit of groovy bassists in the mid 60s to choose from....
Brendan Morrison
Bonham over Billy Cobham on anything? Have you lost your mind? Absolute joke to even mention people like Bonham in the same breath as really great drummers like Elvin Jones, Jack de Johnette, Tony Williams, Billy Higgins, Steve Gadd, Dave Weckl, Vinnie Colaiuta, Antonio Sanchez.....there is a very long list.+PoeticJustice05 .
Andy Thomas
You tell 'em Brendan!
PoeticJustice05
Those are all great jazz guys, but I would take Bonham over all of them on a ROCK record, which is what I said before.Read my comment again, I gave Cobham his props, too. The fact that you don't acknowledge Bonham's greatness because he doesn't play jazz is enough for me to end this conversation now.
Brendan Morrison
Listen to Billy Cobham on Quadrant 4, more rock than jazz. Bonham wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes with Zappa. Way inferior to Vinnie and even Terry Bozzio. I rest my case. Best wishes, my friend.
PoeticJustice05
I've listened to tons of Billy Cobham, from his stuff with Miles Davis to Mahavishnu Orchestra and his solo stuff. I know my drummers. I love Vinnie Colaiuta, he's my favorite drummer, but drumming is more than just about complexity. A solid groove tickles my fancy as much (if not more so) than a complex polymeter. The beauty of Bonham has nothing to do with complexity, and everything to do with feel. Rock is all about feel, so that's why I would choose him over Cobham on a rock record. It appears you like complexity, so this debate is pointless, and I hereby rest my case, as well.
deathtokoalas
i can't agree at all. rock drumming is about keeping a beat, mostly. it's power. groove. and, jazz drumming is all about feel, not technicality.
the truth is that the best rock drummers are jazz drummers, because they're able to get those subtle flourishes in, which is all about feeling that space in between the bars. moon was better at this than bonham, who was really hamfisted when it came to getting in the fills.
but i do suppose he was good at doing his caveman thumping, and it did create a defined style, for better or worse.
future drummers would find ways to combine these things together. this discussion is only really relevant in the context of the years 1970-1975. collins was also a good rock drummer, and you can't reasonably classify bruford either way. the next generation of drummers (dave lombardo, jimmy chamberlain, danny carey, etc) often switched back and forth in mid-song.
none of this is particularly relevant to my initial observation that ginger just flat out wasn't a basher.
PoeticJustice05
Keith Moon would've been kicked out of any other band besides The Who. He played way too much, relatively. For The Who he was perfect, just as Bonham was perfect for Led Zeppelin, and Ringo was perfect for The Beatles, and Mitch Mitchell was perfect for the Jimi Hendrix Experience, and Ginger was perfect for Cream. The best rock drummers are not necessarily jazz drummers, like Bonzo, Moony, Dave Grohl, etc. There are exceptions, like Ginger, Mitchell, Danny Carey, etc., but it's not a requirement. Filling up empty space and complexity is not needed in rock drumming unless the music allows for it. In The Who, the music was tailored for Moony's brand of drumming. In Tool, there are no lead instruments, so it allows Danny Carey to fill in a lot of space with his drums. They're also progressive, so he can incorporate lots of intricate rhythms and such. You can't do that with led Zeppelin songs, you just can't. I've listened to them a lot, I've played their songs, and you just can't play like Keith Moon on Zeppelin songs. You have to let the music breathe, and that's what Bonham did better than anybody. He could hammer out a groove like nobody's fucking business. But that doesn't mean he was a basher. He played with great dynamics, as well. I can't believe I'm trying to justify Bonham's greatness to drummers, but I'm trying. If you honestly can't see it, or rather, hear it, and feel it, then I feel bad for you, because if there's anything drummers should know better than any other instrument, it's that there is beauty in simplicity. Bonzo taught us that. Hell, Bernard Purdie taught us that, and S.P. Leary (played for Howlin Wolf), and Sam Lay (also played for Howlin Wolf), and Clyde Stubblefield (all drummers should know him). Jazz drummers get all the love, but people forget about the blues drummers, those guys who could lay down a fat groove and stay in the pocket. Hell, Bonzo was just a blues drummer on steroids. Anyways, I'm done trying to justify Bonzo's greatness. Any drummer who doesn't appreciate him should be ashamed of themselves.
deathtokoalas
but, this isn't much different than kraftwerk. why don't you kids go listen to squarepusher or autechre or something?
maybe i should look at it the other way around.
here's some stuff from the very late 60s and early to late 70s to have fun with. this stuff actually sounds best on vinyl due to the added distortion. if your parents (or maybe grandparents) were cool in the 70s, there might be a fun collection to sort through. if not, it's a fun day at your local used vinyl outlet.
this isn't just oldskool. it's retro, to a long time ago.
1) kraftwerk (after '75) 2) tangerine dream (after '73) 3) jean michel jarre (oxygene especially) 4) mike oldfield (late 70s and very early 80s) 5) pink floyd (early 70s) 6) morton subotnick (late 60s)
lolmayonnaise
Derivative of that style yes, but with enough new stuff and ideas to keep it fresh I think, especially the really straight and driving drum groove.
deathtokoalas
not really. that's right out of the mid 70s.
Eric Schmidt
I just paused my daily pigcart fix to explore your suggestions and must say that I appreciate your opening up more details to the world that pioneered electronic music... I am adding some of them to my elec, dnb, etc. playlist. That being said, none of those suggestions can replace my pigcart fix. Just sayin'... you did pick one of Deadmau5's best, most well crafted songs to make this comment on.
AidanFirmLegend
I do listen to those things! I just also listen to deadmau5 because he is actually a genius! I also enjoy Daedelus, dBridge, Akkord, Venetian Snares, Aphex Twin, and a bunch of other amazing artists. Just bewcause its mainstream doesn't mean it's bad! Deadmau5 alweays amazes me.
ck675
Hey +deathtokoalas, people that listen to deadmau5 don't JUST listen to deadmau5...
deathtokoalas
no doubt. i'm sure they like skrillex, too.
it's a young demographic, i'm playing elder statesperson. and am maybe a little irked about the hype.
ck675
irked or not, let's try not to generalize
deathtokoalas
i'm not, really. i mean, i'm not starting with a stereotype and extrapolating it. it's not really a comment about the fan base, it's a comment about the music. and i'm ultimately really just providing some useful information that i'm sure is useful to a large number of people stumbling through here, even if it's not useful to everyone stumbling through here.
iHeatzify
poor koalas..
William Heshr
So much knowledge yet so biased at the same time. Tisk Tisk!
deathtokoalas
i don't think i'm really being biased. i mean, it's objectively true that this is post-dated to 40 years ago, and there's consequently 40 years of innovative experimental electronic music to explore that's been released since it was innovative.
not that i don't like to listen to kraftwerk. i do. but this is the voice of my father's generation, and it's going to be kind of a downer if it's also the voice of the one growing up now.
KrisAkaVenno
i think you should be glad these retro sounds are famous nowadays
deathtokoalas
well, they've been famous as long as i've been alive, actually. that's kind of my point.
DanFlex
Funny i saw another comment from you in a beatles video. I think it was in A day in the life. Looks like we have a really good taste of music
Massivecarcrash
When I saw your comment I was initially intriqued and thought "hey some music from the 70's I haven't heard" but was majorly dissapointed when you just namedropped the most entry level electronic and rock artist from the 70's.
Who the hell hasnt heard floyd, oldfield and kraftwerk? You pretty much have to live under a rock to not hear music from the bands you listed.
I cant listen to kraftwerk anyway, it just sounds to much of a parody of itself and hasnt held up well to this day.
deathtokoalas
well,
1) i was drawing attention to the similarity between this and that, because it's well known.
2) the lesser known stuff mostly doesn't sound like this. i mean, stockhausen never did anything like this.
3) there's a generational divide. i'd hazard a guess most kids into edm have never heard jarre, have not explored floyd or oldfield very deeply (i mean, hearing the theme to tubular bells in the exorcist is not the same thing as knowing qe2, and comfortably numb is not the only song pink floyd wrote) very deeply and probably aren't even familiar with kraftwerk beyond "we are the robots". in a sense, i meant it to be very introductory. subotnick is easy entry into more abstract stuff.
4) the truth is most of the less well known stuff really isn't very good, and these things have something to do with each other. let's be honest: the canterbury stuff was mostly aimless. soft machine and gong and camel are pretty boring, and their german equivalents in conrad schnitzler and early can aren't much better.
i may be underestimating a part of the audience, as "ck" suggested. but i'm not trying to reach people that already know. because they already know.
Tom Goodwin
Why do you assume its only kids that listen to deadmau5
deathtokoalas
not only.
but certainly mostly.
deathtokoalas
well, this is what cherub rock is about, corgan's still on the same point he was on 20 years ago.
it's odd that the arcade fire crossed over by emulating u2, who seem to want to be the rolling stones nowadays. and he just watched mcr cross over by emulating him. they won't be the last that does. i sort of realize i'm missing the point - u2 wasn't emulating anybody, and neither was he. but it's not quite as base as he's suggesting.
srv was emulating hendrix in a period where aor had to follow a precise formula, but while talking heads and the cure were doing their thing removed from it. and, likewise, there's some more indie paths being pushed in electronic music. if lolapalooza was punk rock blowing up after fifteen years, rave culture is maybe even a little late.
culturally, the arcade fire is to 2010 as something like tom petty was to 1989. runnin' down a dream is a great tune, but it was dinosaur rock that a lot of kids couldn't connect with and was on the cusp of being wiped out. the reality is that the arcade fire has a fanbase mostly in their thirties. like it or not - and i'm not happy about it - but the example corgan should have used was skrillex.
underneath that, you'll find more interesting stuff on warp or ninja tune, otoh.
sammy sinclair
arcade fire is not going anywhere, but his point is very apt. their last album didn't build any more mainstream success on top of their grammy winning one. and if they had tried too hard at all to push themselves in that direction they would have been labeled as the kings of leon or whatever. i get what he's trying to say. he's wonderful.
deathtokoalas
well, why would you expect a record that is 25-30 years out of date to push beyond an older audience? the tom petty comparison is very good. full moon fever certainly sold a lot of records, and got a lot of critical acclaim, but it could have been released in 1971 as easily as in 1989 and both it's audience and it's legacy reflect that reality.
it's not that the industry has changed that much, i mean the technology has but the dynamics really haven't, it's more that arcade fire aren't doing anything innovative, and are consequently trapped in the adult contemporary market they belong in. corgan's just a little out of touch with his perceptions....
i feel that the most ground-breaking electronic music is behind us, but when looking for the classic records of the last decade that's where one needs to look. and, there's plenty to find for discerning tastes and fans of pop music, alike.
sammy sinclair
what do you mean?... "why would you expect a record that is 25-30 years out of date to push beyond an older audience?"… i don't know what i said that lead to that? and i think whether you think it's technologically based or not… the industry has changed. first and foremost, it's too cheap and easy to make bad sounding records and too expensive and difficult to make ambitious ones that sound great. we could get into it more, but i can't really think of another billion dollar industry that has undergone more transformation than the music industry. maybe the video store industry? i dunno...
deathtokoalas
well, he's putting forward the arcade fire as an act that he thinks should have a bridge to cross, but he doesn't seem to be connecting the dots that the reason he thinks they should have that bridge is that what they're doing belongs to his own era. it's not that the industry is holding them back, or that they'd be more successful if they existed in another era, it's that what they're doing belongs to a past time. it's not that the industry has stopped breaking through to young people, it's that the arcade fire do not appeal to young people because they make the kind of music that their parents like. they're not pushing into the future, they're marketing retro, which is basically selling memories. and, to be blunt, i don't feel they're particularly good at it, either. i'd rather listen to the ideas in their original form than in a fourth-timed repackaged parody of it.
if you want to find forward thinking music, it's out there, but first you have to drop your preconceptions that the present ought to sound like you thought it would in 1979.
sammy sinclair
so what should a rock and roll band sound like in this day? can you give an example of a band that is doing this today but isn't "retro"? guitar driven, rock and roll… not electronic music. i mean, the genre is 50+ years old at this point, what isn't retro? should we just stop making "rock" music?
deathtokoalas
conventional types of rock music will continue to generate an audience, but, moving forwards, this audience is going to be increasingly composed of older people. it's sort of a weird question, because i'd consider st. vincent or 65daysofstatic or the mars volta or bjork or the knife or animal collective or even skrillex to make what is still basically rock music, it's just current rock music rather than the retro rock music that arcade fire are selling.
melt banana released a really phenomenal and, i think, very forward looking record a few months ago. it's heavily electronic, but i'd have to call it rock music.
for some people, it might be a question of changing styles, but i'd be more inclined to look at it as moving the goal posts. new wave and post-punk, and it's derivative genres, have passed out of their creative phases and into their generic phases. it will no doubt be possible to continue generating this type of sound with high profit margins for several decades, but it's no longer capable of tapping into any kind of mass consciousness or affecting culture in any kind of significant way. so, it's up to the aim. do you want to make lots of money? are you solely interested in making artsy, creative music? well, rock still has something left. but, do you want to change the way america and the world thinks? then, put your guitar down and pick up a laptop and exchange your beatnik poems for hip-hop rhymes.
but i do think it was time to put the basic rock form to sleep as far back as around the time the strokes came out. i think that's the last rock revival we're going to see, in forms less trite and purposefully old-timey than the squirrel nut zippers. we're any year away now from beatles or rolling stones novelty acts, if the recent wave of indie folk revivalism isn't already basically a novelty act version of the 60s...
sammy sinclair
"we're any year away now from beatles or rolling stones novelty acts…" hah, i wonder what you'd think of my band. i can't really argue with anything you said, although i don't think rock went to sleep with the strokes. they're just retro to me anyway. it's just the velvets all over again. which is fine, i like the strokes. much more than arcade fire. i don't even think arcade fire is that retro. compared to tame impala or something? i don't know, you talk about music much mo beta den me. i like your opinions.
deathtokoalas
i think tame impala (who i'd point out as the more innovative of the three acts, but i like psychedelic rock more than i like new wave) manage to be unique enough to avoid accusations of being a novelty act, but i do definitely hear a huge amount of pink floyd in there. but, it's back to the same point. it's a lot of fun to see in an open air festival (and their alter-ego, pond, was fun as a bar band), but it's just generating profit. and beer sales...
sammy sinclair
i love pond! ;)
rasputozen
you hit it on the head man
VVV73
Billy explained in other interviews, that he never learnt the skills to mature. Which sometimes comes out in his music regardless how hard he tries be explorative. I have rarely seen or heard a musician that speaks as honestly as Billy. He genuinely gets hurts when his art is criticised. (more so when he was younger, cause he needed to feel loved). He is not the only one that is quite intelligent, intuitive and fully aware of themselves (faults, weakness, vices , demons) , but never learnt or was taught the life skills at an early age , so to fully develop as and adult. I believe am starting to understand Billy more as we get older together. :) It's hard when you know what you should be doing , but no idea how to get there.. I think it comes down to role models (if you were lucky to have any around) when impressionable. You know what they say "practice makes perfect". I feel I can relate to his childhood. Except when I was lucky enough have musical instruments and a good father figure (banjo player in award winning band), he was taken away from me/us (Road accident in tour bus). He introduced me to Scruggs and Flatt and made me mad for bluegrass and the banjo). I never picked up another instrument (drummer in school band/had a junior electric guitar @age 9) again for many years. I am know back into the drums(for fitness and tension outlet mainly) and learning the Banjo. Lookout Seasick Steve 71yo , here I come. :)
Anyway not having ago at you all. (can see exactly where you coming from) tho, SRV is my all time fav musician and IMO had surpassed Jimi as a guitar player. Jimi's equal as a performer and passion, tho Jimi was a superior lyricist and writer / thinker. As Eric said " Stevie was an Open Channel" . Yeah, plugged str8 into God's Marshall stack in my opinion..lol. Sorry about the life post, mind is in overload today.. Keep Groovin' ...........Ah bah bah bah bah bah...GET UP :)
wow. the last time i saw fucked up, damian explained to us that he'd lost some weight and really improved his outlook on life since he started smoking pot. i thought that was a healthy development on a few different levels. it's one thing to obsess over body image, it's another to try and stay healthy to prevent your life from being too short. he looks good.
musically, this definitely reminds me of the early 90s. haven't heard the record yet...
it's so refreshing to stumble upon electronic music with real dynamics. it's a rarity in the modern era. love this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6-PlpmFc-c
crosslinking this for the better recording...
it's so refreshing to stumble upon electronic music with real dynamics. it's a rarity in the modern era. love this...
