deathtokoalas
it's not that bad, really - i was expecting far worse - except that it's plodding and boring. kind of like every other flaming lips record tends to be.

when belle & sebastian did this, they tended to integrate much more defined dynamics, which pushed the tracks forward a lot more effectively. i've gotta argue that you really are going to basically require acid to get anything out of this. and, that's unfortunate. drugs can make good music better, but good tunes really don't need them to get the tracks off the ground.

Conatus
I definitely agree with you. Lets admit, yeah it has a catchy verse chorus but when I listen to Belle & Sebastian compared to ariel pink there's definitely more to listen to. But I do like the recording quality on this song. 

deathtokoalas
it's not catchy, it's dead; it's aiming for carefree, and nailing strung out.

noneofyoucanspell
you just don't hear the subtleties that make this amazing.

deathtokoalas
i think what i'm trying to point out is that there aren't any subtleties. so, maybe you're right, then - maybe i can't hear them. but they must be incredibly subtle, because i'm usually pretty good at that....

maybe that's what hipster subtlety is all about.

so subtle you can't hear it with the naked ear.

wait! wait! i get it! that's what those glasses are for, right? so you can see the subtleties in the waveform, when analyzed in a wave editor. then, with your superhuman vision, you can abstractly reconstruct the aural subtleties and think them into existence when you're listening.

that must be the reason the rest of us don't get it. maybe i should invest in a pair of those glasses....

Dirk Diggler
lol... It must suck to pay such close attention to music that you don't like. I'm sorry.

deathtokoalas
i do it for the kids, they need guidance and historical context.

that's what happens you stop drinking fluoridated water.

i don't know what's really going on here, but that freeze response from jay z is what happens when there is no chance for survival. that's some massive levels of intimidation coming from solange, right there.

..and kenya has an mra minister? i can't stop laughing...

and he smokes during press conferences? shit, i'm from just outside quebec, and they smoke in church but they don't smoke at press conferences....

ok, no, that's a pen. had me for a minute...

deathtokoalas
it's a question of using proportional amounts of force. yeah, she was coming at him, but he's a running back and she's not. i doubt he meant to knock her out, but it's not the point. in a situation like that, the much stronger person needs to be aware of how much stronger he is and restrain the person that's coming at him until they calm down.

the nfl is sending a message, and it's a worthwhile message to send, but you can't help but feel a little bad for the guy. i don't know the context, but i don't get a one-sided pattern of domestic abuse out of the video. what i get is basically an accident of self-defense coming out of a dysfunctional relationship.

after doing a little googling, what i'm getting out of this fiasco is really just another example of out-of-control, sensationalist media.

and it didn't just ruin this guy's career - it fucked his wife's life up, too. the supposed victim, that is - who realizes it's the kind of accident that happens when adults play rough with each other.

Amaalina
But if you closely in the beginning he hit her in the face and that's when she charged or walked towards him to hit him. But honestly I don't feel bad, no matter what you don't hit a women. He obviously knows his strength compare to hers.He has the option to walk away and leave.

deathtokoalas
she hit him before they got on the elevator, but i don't think there's any insight to be gained from figuring out who hit who first. what i would conclude from watching the video is that they have somewhat of a physical relationship and push each other around a little when they argue. that is not the same thing as assault or abuse.

generally, women that are battered demonstrate a healthy level of fear towards their partners. that's the point of the violence - to control. there's no indication of that in the video. she was entirely confident that she could lunge at him without serious harm, and probably would have escaped serious harm were it not for the enclosed space, where he doesn't have the option to back off that he might have normally taken.

i'm not suggesting he didn't overreact, but this isn't what the media is presenting it as.

Twinnie
That is in no way self defense. One, he has a bunch of weight on her, he's an NFL star, and he's a grown man. If it were self defense the spitting would have been enough. He punched her twice. Not only that, she was not even physically bothering him once they stepped foot onto the elevator. Self defense is a bullshit excuse right now.

deathtokoalas
c'mon - she obviously lunged at him, and he knocked her when she was on the way there. what you're saying is true - i stated it myself - but i think the error in your reasoning is that it's logical. in a situation like that, humans don't have time to carefully weigh all of the options that are available to them and come to a rational conclusion. instead, they break down to instinct, which is "fight or flight" and react on an impulse as to which is better for survival. the thing is he's trapped in the corner of an elevator. she probably jumps him all the time, and he probably generally backs off or dodges her - he is, after all, a pretty good running back, so he's good at that. but, when flight isn't an option, all that's left is to fight and what takes over is that instinct and what drives the behaviour is the impulse.

now, he could have and should have tried to restrain her as his "fight" response. but, that he didn't react in the best way possible doesn't mean it's a "vicious attack".

AfriSynergyNews
It is not clear that he punched her in the face until she charged at him.  He may have spat on her.

True, he should have restrained her.  Jay Z reacted in the best way with Beyonce's sister in the elevator.  Ray reacted badly.  If one or both of them were drunk, this can elevate latent behaviors.

deathtokoalas
i just watched that video and what jay z seems to demonstrate is the "freeze" response to fight-or-flight. beyonce's sister really scared the fuck out of him. ray wasn't nearly as frightened. also, it seems to have been the other people in the elevator that were responsible for restraining her, who weren't stuck in hormonal overdrive.

(deleted response)

deathtokoalas
meh. there's some logic to that, and it's applicable to most people you aren't building a family with, but relationships require a certain egalitarian basis to be effective. they can both - and no doubt did - realize the guy's superior strength. that doesn't mean she should be afraid of him, it means he's gotta be careful. on the other hand, she might be considerably more intelligent than him and they might both be aware of that. it doesn't mean she should talk down to him, it means she should be patient.

Isaiah From the Nati
If he a lot bigger DONT PICK THAT FIGHT. I'm 15 but u don't see me fighting big ass grown men then saying they should be punished cause I'm a minor

deathtokoalas
it's not a comparable situation though, isaiah. you're smart not to pick fights with bigger kids or adults, but in a relationship there's a basis of trust that has to transcend issues like physical strength. you'll understand that as you grow older.

Shaun17511
Jay Z was not "scared the f.." by Beyonce's sister and froze up, he was smart.  Restraining someone often gets re-characterized as mutual combat, resulting in both parties getting arrested, or more often the case, just the guy.   He was smart to simply take the blows, and let a third-party do the separating / restraining.

deathtokoalas
but, again, that is not how people react in situations of conflict. what happens is your autonomous nervous system kicks in, and you're driven by impulse to flee if you can, fight if you think you have a chance and freeze if there's no way out. there's a tremendous amount of ignorance about this in our legal culture that really needs to be aggressively addressed.

jstoner6
When it comes to self defense you don't have to restrain yourself. I guess these two should learn to keep their hands to themselves.

deathtokoalas
i think they'll be ok if they just stop fighting in enclosed spaces.

Nonya Buzines
When tobacco companies say, " Tobacco is bad for your health and can cause cancer", and you still smoke. The tobcacco company is no longer to blame! What people seem to forget is that a white cop hits a black lady and they promote the cop, but I get it cops don't break the law only people in the NFL and in MMA.

Timmy Pelotte
what does this have to do with race? 

deathtokoalas
i think the media coverage has a pretty strong racial context underlying it, even if it's not explicitly stated. the headlines seem to be barely a step down from

PRIMITIVE NEGRO SAVAGELY CANNIBALIZES WIFE

are your white daughters safe?

Jay J
Correct. A lot of the media outrage is fake. TMZ is out to make a quick buck at anybody's expense. She MARRIED him. Obviously she has forgiven and moved on. If she married him afterwards and admitted to instigating and contributed to the fight, then people outside the relationship need to stay out.

deathtokoalas
i think there's a place for friends and family members to react to warning signals. and i'd take it as one, no doubt. but we don't have any valid prerogative to sit here from a distance and make judgements on other people's value systems.

Jmichael
In what way almost the same?  As I see it, what you are doing is "fanning racial flame" without one iota of proof.  That's not right unless you can back it up with something besides inflammatory remarks--just who said "primitive negro or even IMPLIED it--besides you just now?

deathtokoalas
well, this very video is full of racist comments, if you'd take the time to look.

the american media has found more sophisticated ways to be racist, which deal with certain code words and contexts. it's engineered to be difficult to deconstruct, but it's there when you really disassemble it.

Nonya Buzines
What happened to that white cop that groud-n-pounded that black lady? Did he get a promotion? Another medal from the mayor?

(deleted response)

deathtokoalas
what i'm trying to get across is that, while it might be true that he didn't hit her hard and the rail technically knocked her out, he should have been more aware of the potential consequences. legally, the concept in tort law is called "duty of care". it means he has a responsibility to ensure that he carries out "reasonable foresight" in ensuring his actions don't cause harm. if it was a stranger, i'd agree he should be responsible for medical costs.

Wilphart
I don't think his intention was to knock her out.  I think he underestimated his own strength.  His couple of swats (I don't think they were closed-fisted) were too much for her face.  He didn't keep at it, or even seem angry; I think he was surprised when her feet fell out from under her.  He got counseling, she forgave him, and they got married.  I don't think it implies he's a serial woman-beater or that it will happen again.  It has nothing to do with football, but I understand their money comes from fans, who have now seen the video.  The media makes money at his expense, too, and that's the price of being famous.  I don't condone what he did, but I feel sorry for him and wish the media would leave him alone.

deathtokoalas
the energy rush triggered in the fight response from the sns as a result of being cornered could very well have contributed to a slap that was much harder than intended. that's a lot of factors that neither of them had any grasp of as things were happening.