would you expect the army to take pleasure in massacring it's own civilians on the order of international bankers?
this is why they need foreign contractors. it's an age-old problem. the romans needed to do the same thing. put simply, it's not easy to convince people to murder members of their own community. soldiers tend not to like doing that...
i suppose if you were seeing images from hungary or tienanmen square, you'd be praising their discipline?
"the reason i signed up for the army was so i could massacre my fellow citizens because they rejected foreign-imposed austerity packages that will throw them into abject poverty."
J Gates
if I work in a bank, am I a banker?
deathtokoalas
what are you getting at?
J Gates
just trying to figure out what you define as a 'banker'
deathtokoalas
in context? imf. world bank. prominent shareholders. etc.
J Gates
i just work at a big bank
deathtokoalas
well, did you order the crackdown from your cubicle?
into your headset?
while your colleagues stared at you?
J Gates
well no, but I do work in an international bank. Isn't that what 'international banker' implies?
deathtokoalas
well, it depends. i'm not talking about the janitor.
J Gates
I'm not the janitor
deathtokoalas
i legitimately don't think you are, but somehow my attempt to derisively make it clear that it is obvious that people that merely work for some international bank (perhaps as a teller) aren't responsible for violently pushing through imf reforms isn't getting through.
if you are actually a decision maker at the imf or world bank, and you are responsible for setting "market reform" policies, what are you trying to get across?
there may be some missing context necessary here.
- the imf is demanding austerity reforms.
- this is driving the instability, as it is elsewhere in europe.
- while that doesn't produce a banker sitting in brussels barking orders to the ukrainian military, the crackdown is a part of the process of pushing the reforms through.
- it follows that the military crackdown in the region is in order to ensure that austerity measures are put in place.
J Gates
wait, but ukraine isn't implementing any austerity, it borrows money from russia
deatrhtokoalas
for an international banker, you seem badly informed. ukraine is in the process of being put through the same shock treatment as greece, and the east is going to be badly affected by it because it has high unemployment and low wages.
that's not to suggest that the russians aren't organizing events on the ground, because they clearly are. but, these sorts of things can't be successful unless they're tapping into a level of existing resentment. one of the reasons russia seems more attractive than ukraine is that russia has a more generous social system - better welfare payments, better pensions, etc. if i was standing in donetsk, with absolutely no employment possibilities and a family to feed, i'd be far more attracted to the russian welfare state than the imf-driven ukrainian austerity packages, too.
which, incidentally, is why russia will not annex the region and will continue to push for an internal solution. that's not going to stop them from wasting resources and money on these covert operations, though.
they fell for it. they can't get out of it, now. this is going to be a headache for russia for the next decade.
J Gates
huh? greece went through the shock treatment from borrowing money from the EU. Ukraine is going through a political protest and divide. I think you're the badly informed one here buddy.
deathtokoalas
well, the precise problem in greece is that they can't deflate their currency because they gave away their monetary sovereignty. if they could just devalue, they'd mostly be out of the mess. but, instead, they've been forced to sell off their assets to foreign investors, cut pensions and whatnot.
i live in canada. we have a confederated system of provinces, where wealthy provinces send "equalization payments" to less wealthy ones. this could be roughly equivalent to the "bailout packages" if they were enforced on a regular basis, as they are here. it's a necessary consequence of a centralized currency across a country with vastly divergent economies. yet, that's not politically palatable in germany. and, in fact, it's very unpopular in some areas of canada (alberta, especially). we've developed a terminology of "have" and "have not" provinces. besides abandoning the euro, that's the only civilized way out of the mess in greece.
while ukraine is not dealing with the same problem of a lack of monetary sovereignty, the imf prescription is the same: privatize everything and sell most of it off to people outside of the country. but this itself is less of a kick in the gut than cuts to basic services, which are what is driving the protests in the east of the country.
